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Prabhupada: Oh, they come to Bombay by car.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. They drive from Bombay to Hyder... I've also done that driving. Long trip-ten, eleven hours.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: Ten or eleven hours, I think. Long trip. Maybe even longer.

Prabhupada: Why kirtana stopped?

Tamala Krsna: Kirtana?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: It's just beginning again, Srila Prabhupada. You like the kirtana? For a few days we weren't having it.

Prabhupada: Hamsaduta was chanting.

Tamala Krsna: You want him to chant again? Should he chant some more?

Prabhupada: I think so.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. I think the reason that you haven't been having much kirtana in the last two or three days is because Hamsaduta and Baradraj were not here. Isn't that it? Hmm. Their kirtana is very sweet. [break]

Prabhupada: ...Ratha-yatra ceremony.

Gaura-Govinda: At Ratha-yatra Jagannatha came very late for Pandu-vijaya. It was first announced that it would take place at nine, but actually it took place at 4 p.m.

Prabhupada: Why?

Gaura-Govinda: We heard that this year that new body... Jagannatha has a new body, so it was heard that that was not proper time. These pandas and some people, they were interested with this business purpose. They did so, and also these pandas were doing some nonsense inside the temple, so Jagannatha was very much displeased, so it took so much time.

Prabhupada: The pandas untimely changed the body?

Gaura-Govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Puri-raja, the king of Puri, would do cara-paraha[?] this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Puri-raja. There was some incident previously. So Puri-raja was not present at that time. He left Puri, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha[?] was being done by this bada panda, bada panda, puja-panda. Such mismanagement was there.

Prabhupada: Who was bada panda?

Gaura-Govinda: There was one bada panda. I don't know his name. [indistinct] One who does offerings. [indistinct] He is chief of those pandas. And then, when this pulling of car... That took place just a few minutes before sunset. And it was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarama's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a shop, and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled, the cars were pulled to the Gundica. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from 10 to 4.

Prabhupada: Only party means?

Gaura-Govinda: We. Lokanatha Swami's party had arrived, and we are at Bhubaneswar, four, five devotees. We were there two days before at Puri, and we went there and we chanted and did kirtana before the ratha from 10 to 4. And there were much crowd this year, so much crowd that this whole bada danda[?] was filled up. And above, the top of the roofs, the buildings, were all overfilled. The government people that were broadcasting of radio, they all took the photos and also they recorded our kirtana. They announced in the radio also. This incident took place this year.

Tamala Krsna: We did not have these problems at our Ratha-yatra, Srila Prabhupada.

Pancadravida: The crowds stayed for the third day, or they all left?

Gaura-Govinda: No, they left. Third day there was a thin crowd. They all left. That was the only day when all had come. They left. Fifty percent, seventy-five percent crowd left. Only twenty-five percent stayed.

Pancadravida: Was there any criticism?

Gaura-Govinda: Oh, many criticisms. Many criticisms. I also heard there was one custom that there are some specific persons, pandas, they would go out to all directions to search that wood, specific nim wood, from which the new body would be carved. There are some symptoms in the wood, that nim tree. They would find it out. And they'll go all directions. But this year they have never gone anywhere. Last time from where they have picked up the trees, they went there, and without proper ceremony they only cut down the trees and came. This was also criticism. They never followed this thing this year.

Prabhupada: The pandas are doing...

Gaura-Govinda: They are doing all nonsense. These pandas are so wicked that all were afraid of them. These government people are all afraid of them. The administrator, temple administration, though he's government servant, he's all..., they are all afraid of them.

Prabhupada: Why?

Gaura-Govinda: Because they are gundas. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pandas, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such... That Sadasiva Rath Sarma? That time, Prabhupada, when you were at Bhubaneswar, he came...

Prabhupada: Ah, ha, ha.

Gaura-Govinda: He was telling that when he associated with us, those pandas told him that "Oh, you have taken some money from these ISKCON people. Therefore you are favoring them." He was criticized, and he was telling me that "Now these pandas are talking about me like this."

Prabhupada: He's also a panda?

Gaura-Govinda: No, he's not a panda. He's one of these panditas of that Mukti-mandapa pandita. He's president. This time, while we were talking with Anantadeva, we said that "Sadasiva Rath Sarma is favoring us, and he gives favorable opinion." Anantadeva said, "No, no, no. Don't believe him. He's a rascal. He's the most greedy person. He wants much more money." Anantadeva gave this opinion about him.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Srila Prabhupada, I have brought milk and barley. Will you sit up now?]

Prabhupada: Hmm. [break]

Prabhupada: The sanctity of Jagannatha Puri-lost.

Bhavananda: Is there any pain this side, Srila Prabhupada? Any pain this side? [break]

Prabhupada: Jagannatha Puri's sanctity they are killing. Thousands of years. Hmm? Gaura-Govinda?

Bhavananda: Gaura-Govinda Swami?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes?

Prabhupada: The sanctity is being...

Gaura-Govinda: Sanctity is lost now.

Prabhupada: Kali-yuga. What is happening Jagannatha Svami?

Gaura-Govinda: Those pandas, they have developed these demoniac qualities, and they are forbidding the real devotees to enter into the temple. That is also an offense.

Pancadravida: Even our devotees born in Hindu families they won't let into the temple.

Gaura-Govinda: What is that Hindu? So-called Hindu.

Pancadravida: So-called Hindu. Lokanatha Swami even. There is no reason even they should forbid him from going to the temple.

Prabhupada: They are depressing to extract money.

Svarupa Damodara: How many pandas are involved?

Gaura-Govinda: There are many pandas.

Tamala Krsna: How many?

Gaura-Govinda: Hundreds.

Pancadravida: These panditas, Srila Prabhupada... Five years ago I got permission to go into the temple and they let me in the gates, only the panditas blocked the door. They would not let us in. But we were allowed inside the temple gates and everything. It was only the one pandita came and stopped us. [break]

Prabhupada: Management is in the hands of government?

Tamala Krsna: Is the management in the hand of the government?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes, government. One administrator is there. He's government employee.

Tamala Krsna: That means the government is being paid off by the pandas.

Svarupa Damodara: This is Orissa government isn't it?

Gaura-Govinda: Hmm. Orissa government. Anantadeva said that government administrator wants money also.

[indistinct whispered comments]

Tamala Krsna: Anantadeva said the government administrator also wants money. They're all in it together.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes. [indistinct] said that Rath Sarma, he's favorable. He said, "No, he's the most loony person."

Tamala Krsna: Who?

Gaura-Govinda: That Sadasiva Rath Sarma, the president of the Mukti-mandapa-saba[?]. [break]

Pancadravida: The biggest panditas are all known meat-eaters also.

Gaura-Govinda: Ah, yes.

Tamala Krsna: They eat meat.

Gaura-Govinda: Meat, fish, everything.

Tamala Krsna: I think, Prabhupada, you mentioned in the Caitanya-caritamrta that.

Gaura-Govinda: And they also take all sorts of intoxication, and they also go to the prostitute. Everything they do.

Tamala Krsna: How can they serve the Deity? Srila Prabhupada, does Lord Jagannatha reside there any more?

Prabhupada: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.

Tamala Krsna: What was proof, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: That ratha-cakra broken.

Gaura-Govinda: Cakra broken. Yes. It was broken. It was going to be pulled on that very day actually.

Tamala Krsna: Does Lord Jagannatha reside there any more?

Prabhupada: He resides everywhere. Jagannatha says, yatra tisthati mad-bhaktas tatra tisthami narada. Things are deteriorating. That I am lamenting. There is no... For thousands of years sanctity-they are killing.

Tamala Krsna: Is there anything we can do about it?

Prabhupada: Unless the administration comes to us.

Svarupa Damodara: If we pray to Lord Jagannatha so that... [break] [end]