Audio
Prabhupada: It should be checked? This is the point.
Giriraja: Yes. I don't think that the court will decide against us.
Prabhupada: If they decide that, there are many other court judgments in our favor. Then we must adopt civil disobedience. There is no other, second way. "Capriciously you cannot impose anything against the law, against the judgment. If you do, then we shall also disobey." That should be the last resolve.
Prabhupada: Yes, I know that.
Hari-sauri: And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on saṅkirtana every day, distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn't pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o'clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And... It went on for months. And then in the end we had..., there was so much publicity about it...
When we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn't get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our saṅkirtana activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there's nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don't think they can do that.
Prabhupada: So your wife came.
Prabhupada: This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like, those who are old style, they do not.
Prabhupada: They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that "I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased." That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuff, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life.
They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn't matter, but must be responsible, that "These children should be saved. This is the last birth; no more birth. I'll train the child in such a way that next life he's going to Krsna, back to home, back to Godhead." That is parents' duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: "I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs." This is life.
Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Thakura was grhastha; he produced Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. That is worth. So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is grhastha asrama. Produce Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. My Guru Maharaja used to say that "If I can produce krsna-bhakta as children, then I'm prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children." And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devaki in their previous life... What was the name?
Their determination is, "If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, tapasya." And when Krsna came, "What do you want?" "I want You." "Who is like Me? I shall appear." Anyway, we have got such huge establishment. Utilize it very properly, everywhere. Another thing, that in Vrndavana... You remember the corner land, Parikrama rasta?
Prabhupada: That is available by acquirement.
Prabhupada: No, Gurukula... When we go to the chungi, in front of...
Prabhupada: Yes. That is agricultural land.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is first.
Prabhupada: After crossing the road, the corner.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.
Prabhupada: So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending lakh of rupees for Municipality, why not acquire that land?
Prabhupada: Acquire means you have to pay, but government...
Prabhupada: Not long time. They'll give us, because it is lying vacant.
Prabhupada: So you can do it immediately. But go on, purchase. It is lying vacant.
Prabhupada: That is not much. A few yards only. And then introduce it and distribute that water, the whole land, and you will get good agricultural produce, very good. You can have very good business.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This water is very valuable for agricultural purpose. Nature has made in such a way. Aiye. All rejected water, you can utilize for agriculture.
Prabhupada: Kick out the West. [laughter] We are doing here, in India. The Municipality is doing that also in Vrndavana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhapara matha. Dhapara matha... Formerly, anything produced in dhapara matha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition, that "These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty..." But the vegetables were... Cauliflower, so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big. Dhapara mathera kapi [Transl. Dhapara matha-field. They used to call.]
Yes. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice. That is utilization of this filthy water, where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted all the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow's, cow dung and man's stool and everyone's stool, they are wrapped together in the rainy season. It became fertile. Aiye. [Transl. What sir, am I right or wrong?]
Sethi: [Transl. Yes. It turns into manure.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, manure.]
Prabhupada: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.
Prabhupada: But in the meantime you...
Prabhupada: So why you can't? We have purchased that land. They have to...
Prabhupada: Yes. That means... We have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court: "We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The Municipality is not doing anything." We have to fight like that.
Prabhupada: Why you should be afraid?
Prabhupada: That I am speaking, that he is trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have purchased the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land... The Municipal is obliged.
Prabhupada: Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is Municipal's duty. Otherwise, why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?
Prabhupada: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to gunda-ism, we shall engage fifty gundas: "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anyaya ye kare prabhu anyaya ye sahe. The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong."
One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is ksatriya spirit. Yuddhe capy apalayanam [Bg 18.43]. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this baniya spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Baniya spirit. But you are ksatriya.
Prabhupada: No, you argue with weapon. Beat them. We shall see. Go to the police, that "This is nonsense."
Prabhupada: So how is that?
Prabhupada: No, we should beat them. If somebody, atatayi... "You unnecessarily attack me; I must first kill you. That is my duty." Just like you have done here, Sethiji: "I'll bring my revolver." So that is argumentum baculum. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: "All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver." He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice? Take that spirit. And in meantime, apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we're not going to pay tax.
Prabhupada: Let us go on, one court after another, one court after... If there is fight, we must be prepared to fight. [Transl. What do you say Sethiji?]
Sethi: [Transl. You are right.]
Prabhupada: If required, take Sethiji. He'll help.
Sethi: Giriraja. You ask me.
Giriraja: He's very heroic. He was very heroic.
Sethi: [Transl. Yes.]
Prabhupada: Very good. You take him.
Sethi: In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is ksatriya spirit. If you want to fight...
Sethi: Yes, always.
Prabhupada: You killed? [laughter]
Sethi: Yes! So many times. So many times.
Prabhupada: So you have got experience. Huh?
Sethi: Sometimes, I have walked on the dead bodies.
Prabhupada: Accha. So many dead bodies.
Sethi: I have seen about four men at the Pathankot, and the... One, this Korabhari, this taṅga, Victoria, came with six Muslims. And they challenged us, very..., "We will kill you." We said, "Yes, come. You kill us; we will kill you. We fight." We were ready at that time, because revolver was there and the ax, hatchets was there. One, my friend, he was from Gujranwala. He showed this hatchet, and his head cut out, and he was running...
Prabhupada: Accha. Still running?
Sethi: Running! In Mahabharata I was heard that body was running. But actually I have seen at that time. Head was cut, and the body was running.
Prabhupada: Just see. [laughter] And then he fell down.
Sethi: Then he fell down. And of that, the other men went.
Prabhupada: That, how he was running with his mind, just see.
Sethi: And we have saved all the fellows, because...
Prabhupada: That, these rascals, they do not know...
Sethi: Because if they first, they put us, then our men will do it. So we do first.
Prabhupada: Killing.
Sethi: Yes. And the one man get out from the horse-cart, who first cut out his head. Then... And all the others ran out. [Transl. Otherwise they would have killed us.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. In Calcutta, they used to capture Muslims and sacrifice them before goddess Kali.] Yes. [Transl. In Baghbazzar square. One or two sacrifices.] Actually. It was also very disastrous.
Sethi: To fight... When fight is there, then [Transl. no hesitation.]
Prabhupada: That is also Krsna conscious. You see how many demons are killed by Krsna.
Sethi: "Come on." You challenge. You see? I've declared. If they challenge us, I am ready: "Come on." At the temple I challenged, "Come on! And you are 150. We don't afraid."
Prabhupada: Huh? If you have lost your ksatriya spirit, then take him.
Sethi: When he came with that barrister to give you to notice... [Transl. At that time I called him bad names strongly right here. I said "You idiot."]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That is why] Mhatre was so against, that "We must stop this." Yes. I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Sethi, "Either Sethi should go..." Like that, he has repeated. He gave me hint that Sethi [Transl. should be removed. Otherwise it is not possible.] And you know that. The doctor... What is that doctor?
Prabhupada: He suggested. He's Mhatre's man.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Sethi: He was also play the game in the land, this, that he was so many...
Prabhupada: He gave hint that "Give Mhatre two lakhs of rupees." Yes. He was canvasser on behalf of Mhatre. He wanted two lakhs.
Prabhupada: So I think you make this point. But best thing is that if you can acquire that land, that is best solution. We can utilize that land?
Prabhupada: It is just in the corner.
Prabhupada: Anything we can do.
Sethi: Guruji, one night at the Pakistan front we stay in one place, and forty, fifty men came there, with axes and hatchets. And another fellow which was with me, he was asked to be one of them. So when they came, we recognized and we were ready with the revolvers and the [indistinct]. The men came, and they want to kill us, and we shoot them, five mens dead, that time, and the rest ran away. And I took my child, this Brijmohan, was...
Prabhupada: Young? Young...
Sethi: He was five days old only. And I took my wife on the back...
Prabhupada: Five days?
Sethi: Five days. And I took my wife on the back and child in my hand, and the way was so difficult, and the darkness. And then we..., six miles...
Prabhupada: What about your other children and daughters?
Sethi: They were also with us.
Prabhupada: But they were grown up.
Sethi: But my father took my..., that child who was one year old, one and half year old.
Prabhupada: Oh, father, mother, everyone-whole family. Then how trial they had.
Sethi: Six miles from there, and then we got a...
Prabhupada: No, in Bengal also there was fight.
Sethi: Huh? First in Bengal.
Prabhupada: Noakhali there was great fight.
Sethi: After this war I cannot slept six months perfect.
Prabhupada: Mind was so disturbed.
Sethi: Because these, that scenes, came always...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. In vision.
Sethi: ...in dreams, that "We were fighting; we were killing, they are killing; we are killing."
Prabhupada: Just see how much struggle.
Sethi: The dreams. Sometimes we wake up fighting, fighting.
Prabhupada: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood, in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahatma Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrendered by... That is called Kwalabala and basti [Kalabagan basti]. All Muhammadans, back side fully Muhammadans.
So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marcus Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your home. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two gundas are fighting. I have seen. One gunda is stabbing the other gunda, I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. [laughter] And they were our neighbor men.
So I thought, "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came to the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday..., Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered, phataphat-phataphat-phataphat sounds of striking with sticks. So I was child, a boy. I became, "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me.
He took his lathi, and actually... But I passed through, some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So at that time I was rising: "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.
Sethi: I was passing on my car after Pakistan from Laul, and they put bomb, hand grenade, and the back glass broken, but we...
Prabhupada: Saved. Krsna saved, actually. Unless Krsna saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.
Sethi: [Transl. Guruji, that time we didn't feel like there is something called death.]
Prabhupada: Han?
Sethi: [Transl. There wasn't any fear of death.]
Prabhupada: At any moment.
Sethi: "Who are afraid from death, come on!" challenging. [Transl. That's all. No fear at all that "there is a thing called death. I have to die." Nothing at all. No such thought whatsoever.]
Sethi: In the old time, I have not touched any woman.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sethi: [Transl. I have not killed or beaten any woman. Only those men] who have challenged us. [Aside:] Come.
Prabhupada: Ah, look. [laughs] So you were real husband to give protection to your wife.
Indian lady: [Transl. I thought he must be with Guruji while I go to the temple and have darsana of the Lord.]
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sethi: [Transl. We have brought little vegetables for you.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Why did you cook at night?]
Sethi: [Transl. Please take it.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. I don't eat anything at night.]
[Pause] [Aside: Can you make one chapati?]
Prabhupada: Yes, Palika.
[break] ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture, you can do it immediately. Krsi-go-raksya. That... We are going to do that. Krsi... This is beginning: family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam [Bg 18.44].
First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural product. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. Krsi-go-raksya. And the krsi you can produce independently. You simply work.
You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground, throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you'll get one hundred mounds. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you'll eat nicely and you'll be strong. You'll be able to work more. Our point is take Krsna's instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Krsna is advising immediately sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66]. For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you'll do, that is perfect.
Giriraja: You mean I should leave everything and start a farm?
Prabhupada: Where is the question of leaving? Agriculture... You take to agriculture-that means you leave everything?
Giriraja: Well, what I have now.
Prabhupada: Huh? And what you have got? You are asking that "I require now food." That means you have nothing. You have no food even. [aside:] Oh, you have brought it very quickly. Very nice. All right.
[break] Live very comfortably, eat very comfortably and work. Chant Hare Krsna. Simply wasting time, the civilization... Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Working hard and wasting valuable time of... Misguided. Andha yathandhair upaniya... [SB 7.5.31]. When I think of their position... So every Vaisnava should be para-duhkha-duhkhi. So you like it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
[break] What is this temple? London? No.
Prabhupada: Oh, France.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes. I think it is rightly done.
Prabhupada: One lakh.
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