761209R1.HYD

Prabhupada: ...jail, it is not due to overpopulation. It is due to overcriminality. Similarly, whenever there is scarcity of supply or scarcity of food, it is not due to overpopulation. It is due to overcriminality or over-sinful activities. Due to over-sinful activities, not overpopulation. It is a bogus theory. That is stated, tan aham dvisatah kruran [Bg 16.19]. Those who are devils, who are demons...

Jagadisa: What was that verse, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Tan aham.

Jagadisa: Tan.

Prabhupada: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be suffering. You cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg 7.14]. There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Jagadisa: Their answer or my answer?

Prabhupada: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot use it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani, ahaṅkara-vimudhatma [Bg 3.27]. You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are. You can close this door.

[break] ...population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. [break]

Jagadisa: That verse is from the Third Chapter.

Prabhupada: So in order to release ourself from the sinful..., reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajna. And in this age the easiest process of yajna is saṅkirtana-yajna.

[break] So what are the problem?

Jagadisa: Under "problems" are... There are some general problems, such as taxes.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jagadisa: Taxes. Taxation.

Prabhupada: Hmm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this..., there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment. Because the government is your government, because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation. [break]

Jagadisa: Other problems?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jagadisa: Other problems?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jagadisa: Race relations.

Prabhupada: Race relations? That is also ignorance of Krsna consciousness. If Krsna is the original father where is the question of race? You are all brothers.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: So, all problems solved?

Jagadisa: As far as I'm concerned.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jagadisa: I can't think of any more major problems. I remember from...

Prabhupada: Problem... As long as you have got this material body you'll have problem.

Jagadisa: One after another.

Prabhupada: Therefore the best solution is to go back home, back to Godhead.

Jagadisa: We have to convince them that they have problems, because they think that they're enjoying.

Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. Therefore they require education.

Jagadisa: They don't know of the real standard of enjoyment.

Prabhupada: How they can know? There is no understanding. Mudha.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: To solve all these problems, therefore, there must be a class of men, brahmanas. Not a class; a section of people must become brahmanas. And all other sections should consult them and live as ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras.

[pause]

Prabhupada: Then? It is finished now? No.

Jagadisa: Well, we've solved all the problems.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jagadisa: We've solved all the problems. Now we want to convince this Vinobhaji to support us?

Prabhupada: Yes. So can you see what is the position, my quarters?

Hari-sauri: Well, Murti said your side is fit for moving into. But if they have... See, Bhogilal Patel is not here yet, so I thought if we wait at least till tomorrow, if you want, then that will give them the chance to get a few more doors on, and then, if Bhogilal comes tomorrow, then we can move in the morning.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Hari-sauri: See, they have all the wood now for the doors, and they need one more day and then all the doors will be fitted in the whole house.

Prabhupada: So do that tomorrow.

Hari-sauri: And that will be a lot safer too. Security reasons, it will be a lot better.

Prabhupada: Tomorrow morning we can go.

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

[break] ...suddhyed sattva, purify your existence. [end]