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Prabhupada: So you can test. Just like if you are eating, you can understand how much you are getting strength, how much you are satisfied. You haven't got to ask anybody. Similarly, if you are actually engaged in religious principles, the test is how much you are detached from material attraction and how much you are attached to God. This is the test. Anyone can see whether I am increasing my attachment for dog or whether I am increasing my attachment for God. That's all. This is test.

Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42]. That is bhakti. Bhakti means God-realization. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg 18.55]: "One can understand Me only through bhakti." So that is first-class religion, bhakti. So if you have got bhakti, then you will realize God daily, every moment. That is real understanding. So by becoming a follower of [indistinct] Thakur, whether we have developed that Krsna consciousness or not, that is the test. But how can I say? It is up to you. That is up to you.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught us these things. He was mad after Krsna by His personal… Govinda-virahena me. Sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me.

This is the highest developments of Krsna consciousness. He is thinking, yugayitam nimesena: one moment as twelve years. "Why…, where is Krsna? I could not see Him." Yugayitam nimesena. Nimesa means moment, and yugayitam means twelve years. Yugayitam, caksusa pravrsayitam: "Crying like torrents of rain," sunyayitam jagat sarvam, "the whole world is vacant." Why? Govinda-virahena me: "I cannot see Govinda." This is Krsna consciousness. The Gosvamis, next Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the Gosvamis, they are saying, he radhe he vraja-devike he lalite he nanda-suno kutah [Sad-gosvamy-astaka 8]: "Where you are all?" Sri-govardhana-kalpa-padapa-tale kalindi-vane kutah: "Are you under the Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Yamuna River? Where you are? Where you are?" They are searching: ghosantav iti sarvato vraja-pure. In this way they are searching Krsna, all over Vrndavana. Vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau.

So this is Krsna consciousness-when one becomes mad after Krsna, "How to see Him? How to see Him?" Not that "I see already. Finished business." No. How to see Him. How to see Him: "Where He is? Where He is? Where He is?" Increasing this intense love for Krsna, that is wanted. Sunyayitam jagat: whole world is vacant. Just like... This is very practical. If somebody loves somebody and if he is not to be seen, he thinks that the whole world is vacant. We can perceive sometimes, if someone I love is dead, somebody says, "What is the use of this world? I don't want any more." But that is for the moment. That is not [indistinct].

Guest: [indistinct] temporary.

Prabhupada: But sometimes it happens. Similarly, when we will be mad for Krsna, that is the perfection of life. We should be very, very serious to see Krsna. At least this attitude will help us: "Where is Krsna? How I will see Him? How I would meet Him?" That is called Krsna consciousness. Sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. What is [indistinct] Thakur's philosophy?

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh? You do not know?

Guest: No, I know [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Then how you become disciple of him?

Guest: That was a long time ago.

Prabhupada: Without knowing his philosophy, how you have become a disciple?

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guest: [indistinct]

[pause]

Prabhupada: So you don't feel cold by this dress?

Guest: [laughs]

Prabhupada: You don't feel cold?

Guest: No, no. [indistinct] What would be the situation of a young man who has already been initiated by a other guru, and now he's [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: Other guru… Whether he is guru or not, first of all you have to see.

Guest: Hmm.

Prabhupada: What is the meaning of guru?

Guest: A other spiritual master.

Prabhupada: [indistinct]?

Guest: A spiritual master.

Prabhupada: That's all right, but who is the spiritual master?

Guest: And now he would like to be initiated by you.

Prabhupada: That's all right. I mean to say, one should know who is guru. Guru, there are so many. There is one guru, guru-ji, then another guru-ji has come.

[aside:] All right. So one should know who is guru. First of all one should know what is guru, what is the meaning of guru.

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That's all right. First of all you know what is guru.

Indian guest: The definition of guru.

Prabhupada:

This is the definition. Gurum prapadyeta: one should surrender to guru. And who is a candidate he is advised to surrender to Krsna, ah, surrender to guru? Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh. Jijnasuh means one who is very seriously enquiring about Krsna, or God. Krsna means God; God means Krsna. He is required to be a disciple, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh. Not ordinary man. Who is enquiring about worldly things, he doesn't require a guru. He doesn't require a guru. Guru is not a thing-just like we take one cat or dog, we shall keep also one guru. Not like that. One must be very seriously inquisitive to know about the transcendental science about Krsna; then he requires a guru. Otherwise there is no need of keeping one guru, as order supplier. No. That is not.

Then the next question: Who will become guru? Sabde pare ca nisnatam: one who is well versed in the Vedic literature. He knows the purpose of Vedic knowledge. He is guru, sabde pare ca nisnatam. How I shall understand that he is well versed in Vedic knowledge? Brahmany upasamasrayam: he has taken shelter of the Supreme Brahman, ending all material [indistinct]. This is the definition of guru, and this is the definition of disciple. Disciple means he must be serious to know about the Supreme, and guru means one who knows, following the Supreme, and he has no more any material suffering. That's all. But... So thorough knowledge of the Supreme. But it is not difficult. Just like Krsna says,

This science, transcendental science,

"I spoke this science of Krsna, or science of understanding God, to the sun-god, Vivasvan." The present sun-god, or the predominating president of the sun planet, he is called Vivasvan. His son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu: vivasvan manave praha manur iksvakave 'bravit.

So these things are all explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Therefore guru means who is taking the words of the Supreme by parampara system. Just like from Vivasvan, Manu; from Manu, Iksvaku; from Iksvaku to others. Same way. So sometimes we are missing the connecting link, but we can capture it anyway. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is hearing directly from Krsna, and as Arjuna heard to Krsna… Because he directly heard Krsna, he is bona fide. Krsna says that "You are bona fide. Because you are My devotee and friend, I shall speak to you again." So you take the version of Arjuna, then you can be bona fide. But Arjuna is taking in one way, and you are taking in another way, then you are missing. This is the way. It is not very difficult. A guru means he speaks the same thing as the original master says. The original master is Krsna. And guru means he has to repeat the words of Krsna, that's all. To become guru is not very difficult. Krsna says that He is the Supreme; a guru will say that "He is Supreme; I am servant." Guru will never say that "I am He." That is nonsense. That is [indistinct].

Guest: [indistinct] Guru Maharaj-ji… [laughs]

Prabhupada: They are all rascals, not only Guru Maharaj-ji. There are many, many others. I know them. I don't wish to name them. They are all rascals.

Guest (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Guru never says that "I am Supreme." He never says. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair [Sri Gurv-astaka 7]. He should be honored exactly like God, kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya. But he is the most confidential servant of the Lord. He is [indistinct]. Therefore guru is called servitor God, servant God, and Krsna is the master God. That is the difference. Both of them should be honored in the same way, but one is master, another is servant. Guru is servant; Krsna is master. Then it is in order. If you can approach such guru, then your business will be complete. But any rascal declares, "Krsna is dead. Now I am God, I have become Krsna," kick him on his face with your boots. That is the only way. That's all.

Another simple meaning is: guru means "heavy," and laghu means "light." So how one becomes guru? When he knows Krsna. I do not know Krsna; a guru knows Krsna. Therefore I have to go to the heavy. I am light. This is the process. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya [Cc Madhya 8.128]: anyone who knows the science of Krsna, he is guru. That's all.

is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's version. It doesn't matter whether one is sannyasi or grhastha or a brahmana or a sudra. It doesn't matter. If you know the science of Krsna, he is guru. Simple thing. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya. Just like ordinary knowledge, if you want to know, if you want to learn something, so you will have to approach to a person who knows this art. It doesn't matter; you don't ask, "Are you a sannyasi? Are you a grhastha? Are you a brahmana? Are you sudra?" No. If he knows the art, you become his disciple, that's all. Nicad apy uttamam vidyam, Canakya Pandita says. Nicad apy uttamam vidyam stri-ratnam duskulad api. Visad apy amrtam grahyam, amedhyad api kancanam [Niti-darpana 1.16], he has given. So if in the poison there is nectarine, you take it.

If in a filthy place there is gold, you take it. Similarly, if someone is learned, never mind if he is born in low, lower-grade society, you take it. And stri-ratnam duskulad api: if a woman is qualified, beautiful, never mind what is heritage, you accept as wife. This is the instruction of Canakya Pandita. Nicad apy uttamam vidyam stri-ratnam duskulad api. Because according to Vedic culture, when one is married, so all descriptions of kula,[?] jati, [indistinct] they take account. But if a girl is well qualified, stri-ratnam, then you accept; it doesn't matter in whichever family she…

Similarly, you accept guru-it doesn't matter what he is if he knows the science. It is plain, simple thing. Suppose one is musician very nicely, it doesn't matter what he is; you have to learn the music from him. You do not ask, "Are you brahmana?" It doesn't matter whether he is brahmana or sudra; he knows the science. That's all.

Guest: Know somebody who is practicing the science.

Prabhupada: Yes. He is practicing the science, you accept him as guru. Similarly, if somebody knows the science of Krsna, accept him. If you have not done so, then you are mistaken. If you are interested in understanding Krsna, then this is the process. And if you think that to have a guru is a fashion... Nowadays: "I have a guru. He does not know anything; I do not know anything…" That is the fact.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, could I just, erm, any persons who have cars in the cowshed, could they move them? Because the cow trucks just arrived, and any cars in the vicinity will be hit by the cow [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Which?

Devotee: Look out here. [indistinct] There are one or two cars in the vicinity of the shed, and the [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Fixed? I do not follow.

Devotee (2): He's saying that there are several cars, automobiles, near the cowshed. And he's asking that those who own cars. Could they move their cars out of the cowshed?

Prabhupada: How can I help? I shall have to go there? [laughter] Why you are asking me?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So what can I do? [laughter]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You can ask the proprietor of the car. Why you are asking me?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Oh, all right.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya.

[indistinct-many people talking at once in background]

Prabhupada: What is your name?

Pravin: Pravin.

Prabhupada: Pravin. You are also coming from India?

Pravin: Yes. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Oh. From Bombay?

Pravin: [indistinct] [indistinct-Hindi, then background noise]

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee (3): This is [indistinct] very nice man. He's from a very wonderful family. [indistinct] devotees. His wife…

Prabhupada: Englishman? He was Englishman?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: You live in this village?

Indian man: I live [indistinct]. [break] …because I am doing some wood sculpture.

Prabhupada: I see. You are sculptor? Oh.

Devotee: He wants to make Jagannatha deities for our temple in Edinburgh. [indistinct] He teaches yoga, and he was teaching exercise, yoga exercises, and he met Revatinandana Swami and the other devotees, and now he has decided that bhakti-yoga, that is best. And so [indistinct] he came to see Ratha-yatra and see you [indistinct]. [end]