Room Conversation – January 20, 1977, Bhubaneswar

770120R1-Bhubaneswar [46:43 Minutes]

What is the use of decorating a dead body?

[Gour Govinda preaching in temple in Oriya over loudspeaker in background]

Prabhupada: ...neither they do not know how life becomes possible. They may go on "Bak, bak," but these two things are absent. You are all scientist? No. You do not know how life becomes possible. They simply theorize in so many ways, but they cannot give us any positive information.

Indian man: [Transl. How to develop strong faith that God does exist? We don't always understand in spite of thinking in so many ways.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Simply by purifying the intelligence it will be done. If the intelligence is polluted there will be no gain. We have to think like a human being. Then it is possible. If you follow the scriptural injunctions with faith…What is the reason? There must be a creator. Everything has a creator. Just like this table, somebody has made it. Somebody made this table. Similarly who has created this whole universe? Someone must have done it. How can you deny it? What is the cause? Answer?]

Indian man: [Transl. There is no question of denying.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then? Just accept it, that's all. So if your intelligence is pure then you will accept. If the intelligence is lost then there is no use. Those foolish persons who are saying "Everything happened by chance," they are foolish. What on earth came by chance? Fools. Great fools. If we accept the words of the great fools we will gain nothing. What do you say? Is everything happening by chance?]

Indian man: [Transl. It's difficult. In India, it is difficult. There are so many sastras and Bhagavad-gita. But we are…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In our country there are so many sastras and so much knowledge. Vedas, Vedanta, Puranas, Bhagavad-gita, and these literatures are being respectfully accepted all over the world. Without caring for all that you are foolishly declaring "Everything is happening of its own." That's all. So long you hear the foolish words there is no benefit. So first of all you will have to set your mind that we are not going to listen to the words of the fools. Only then you will understand. Those who preach "Everything is happening by chance," are they foolish or not?]

Indian man: [Transl. That's true.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then? What is the use of the statements by the fools? If we firmly make up our mind that we won't hear the words of the fools then things will improve. Everything is explained in the sastras. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna Himself is coming and explaining what is the truth. Then His representatives are also explaining. All the big, big sages, Vyasadeva, Narada, Asita, then big, big Acaryas-Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Sahkaracarya and so on, then recently Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they all are preaching the real truth. What is the use of listening to the words of some foolish people by ignoring such personalities? What is their consideration? Hear their words and everything will be alright. By hearing the words of the foolish people, foolish snarling dogs, nothing will be gained. Now the whole world is filled with fools.]

Indian man: [Transl. Means?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It means they are passing of as learned by disregarding the sadhus, sannyasis, gurus and so on, but actually they are number one foolish. They don't know anything. You name it and we will prove each of them is foolish. Bring anyone, scholars, sadhus, sannyasis, politicians and so forth. All are foolish people. Why foolish? Bring each and every one of them, and we will prove you why they are foolish. You choose who to pick make analysis? That's why we have accepted only one thing which is right-Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that's right. That's all. And it is producing result. Just see all these big, big scholars, they are accepting it. The people of the entire world are gladly accepting.]

Indian man: [Transl. In which form do we have to meditate on God? His…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. God Himself is coming and canvassing. Aham sarvasya prabhava [Bg 10.8]. [Transl. This much you can understand I believe. Krsna Himself is declaring "I have created everything. Aham sarvasya prabhava." Then why are you asking this again? Don't you read Bhagavad-gita?]

Indian man: [Transl. Little bit.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why little? Read little more. All answers are there. There is someone who has created all this. He said, aham sarvasya prabhava. And the person who heard Him, Arjuna, accepted it. Vyasadeva accepted it, Narada accepted it, big, big acaryas accepted it and why you are in doubt?] Mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ [Cc Madhya 17.186]. [Transl. We should follow the path traversed by the Mahajanas or great personalities. Then why are you not following this? What is the reason? Are you more learned and more intelligent than them? All the big, big acaryas have accepted it, and you are not following them. So does that mean you are more learned than them?]

Indian man: [Transl. Not like that…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then why are you not accepting it?]

Indian man: [Transl. To perceive Him with my senses…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What senses? He is beyond your senses. Therefore it is said, mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ. A small boy doesn't know anything. Whatever his father says he simply does it. That's his duty. When the father is instructing, "Dear son, do like this. It will be good." Then why noy accept it? He is definitely beyond the sense perception, but the person who has perceived Him, is explaining that you do like this. Why don't you accept that? Why do you willingly want to remain a fool? That is the point. All the acaryas are accepting. Big, big acaryas who have protected our culture, acaryopasanam. [Bg 13.8] We have to follow the path chalked out by the acaryas. Those who are authorised acaryas. And the greatest acarya is Krsna. Acaryam mam vijaniyan. [SB 11.17.27]

[Transl. The real acarya is Krsna. And those who are repeating His words, they are also acarya. That's all. Just like we are acting as Guru, does it mean we are inventing new rules? Whatever the Supreme Lord has said, we simply repeat. "Look, the Supreme Lord says,] Mattaḥ parataram nanyat [Bg 7.7].

[Transl. This Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nobody is greater than Him. This is our preaching. Just accept it. What else do we preach? You see these books are being greatly appreciated in America and Europe. What else do we say? Whatever the Supreme Lord has said, we just repeat. Are we manufacturing something new? The sastra says, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28] And we say Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are accepting it. That's all. Your senses are not perfect. Everyone knows it. But why don't you accept the words of that person whose senses are perfect? What is your answer? Speak?]

Indian man: [Transl. We are used to immediate result. That's why we look for the quicker path.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are not adopting the right path for getting result. So how will you get the result? Had you adopted the path you would not have said that. You have a doubt. Hence you are asking how to fix the mind. The sastra is explaining how to control the mind. "Do like this."] Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam [Bg 18.65]. [Transl. Why don't you take it? The question does not arise as to how to control the mind, because the Supreme Lord is prescribing, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Why are you not doing that? What is the difficulty in it? Answer? Your question is how to fix the mind. And the Supreme Lord Himself is telling, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Why don't you follow it? Why are you not doing it?]

[Transl. The Lord is explaining Himself. What is the need of your mental speculation? Accept what He says and everything will be alright. If you disregard that and simply speculate, what will you gain? I am just answering your question. If you have any objection, tell me. Suppose you ask a gentleman, "I will go to Puri. So which way should I go?" And he replies "Go that way." Then you have to follow him. Otherwise there is no need of asking anything from anybody. Do whatever you like. So one should inquire from such a source whom he trusts. And then he has to follow what he says. Then it will be fruitful. If you don't believe him, then why do you waste your time and his time? Answer? You asked about how to control the mind. We don't manufacture and preach something. We simply repeat what the Supreme Lord has instructed. Just like the Supreme Lord says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru mam evaisyasi asamsaya. [Bg 18.65]

[Transl. Why don't you follow this? Reply? What is the reason? You have to answer. What is the reason? Say all of you? Why are you not answering this? Speak? It is like, "We won't hear the real truth. We would rather hear foolish people and do things whimsically. Therefore we would perpetually remain fools and not be intelligent ever."] Andha yathandair upaniyamana te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ [SB 7.5.31]

[Transl. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Krsna first came and taught us everything. Then Krsna again came as a devotee and taught us. Still if you are unable to understand then it's our bad luck. Most unfortunate. That's a fact. The Supreme Lord is descending personally and revealing Himself, but we don't take His instructions. And the Supreme Lord is coming as a devotee, still we don't accept His instructions. That means our luck is down. What to expect from a bad luck. "These are useless. We will be alright." That means extremely unlucky. In Bengal there is a curse "Poḍa-kapala or burnt luck." So why remain unfortunate?] "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So we can take the words of the acaryas. Then everything is all right. [Transl. Try with this simple formula.] Harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva .

[Transl. Adopt. There is no expenditure in this at all. Neither any loss. Why don't you do it? When you walk on the street, just chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. These people are doing on beads, but we are not doing. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, what is my loss in it? And if there is profit why not do it? Why don't you practice all this? If you chant the holy name of Hari, will anyone hang you? The sastra is recommending this, harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam. Why don't you do this? Will anyone put a noose around your neck because you are chanting the holy name of Hari? And what loss there is? Don't you see the gain? The mind will become peaceful. Everything will be all right.] Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12]. [Transl. All misconceptions will vanquish. Tell me if you have got the answer of your question.]

Indian man: [Transl. That means we have to take shelter of the holy name of Krsna all the time.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Take shelter means chant. Everything will be all right. Kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ. Trnad api sunicena This is Mahaprabhu's teaching. Taror api sahisnuna, Suppose you are chanting the holy name of Krsna and your friends, circle are criticizing you, but you have to tolerate it. Trnad api sunicena, taror api sahisnuna. So you do that. This is Mahaprabhu's teaching.] trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna /amanina manadena kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ .

Indian man: [Transl. We respect you so much. We learn from you. By your mercy it will happen. Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna.]

[long pause, preaching going on over loudspeaker; lecture ends]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are leaving? Do you have any question?]

Indian man: [Transl. Prasada?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Okay. All of you take some prasada.] Give them prasada.

[Guests leave]

[Transl. Jaya. All of you go and take prasada.]

Indian boy: I want to read some books published by Swamiji. Can I get?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? You can have here. We have got forty standing orders from this city in different libraries, colleges. So you can take books from any library, or if you like you can purchase also.

Indian boy: From libraries?

Prabhupada: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissa. [rings bell; aside:] You can give me little, little sample...

[break] ...for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what... He's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ said, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, apranasya hi dehasya manḍanam loka-ranjanam [Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11].

What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act..., they possesses the soul, then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Gargamuni: Oh, in Mayapur.

Prabhupada: Yes. I have suspended it. So first of all let us see how much land we are going. Then we shall select.

Gargamuni: Well, I feel this land acquisition is not going to take place so soon, 'cause as... [break]

Prabhupada: Yes. Why should we think?

Gargamuni: That has always been your program.

Prabhupada: Yes. Why should we think Krsna is poor man?

Gargamuni: You used to give us ISKCON bullets when we came.

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. You were from the very beginning. Alone, I was preparing. "Give them at least one or two chapatis. That's all."

Gargamuni: You were keeping in the corner...

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes!

Gargamuni: ...in your apartment. We used to ask, "Swamiji, can we take?" And you used to say "Yes."

Prabhupada: And that Stryadhisa?

Gargamuni: Yes, Stryadhisa. He would eat twenty chapatis.

Prabhupada: "Stryadhisa, shall I give you more?" "Yes. Four." Then he finished. "Shall I give you more?" "Yes." So I was giving him four at a time. So four at a time, I was giving five times, six times. [laughs]

Gargamuni: Yes, so much. There was always a stock of something.

Prabhupada: That atta, one bag.

Gargamuni: One bag a week.

Prabhupada: And Kirtanananda was preparing at a time at least ten chapatis in that oven, very quickly. Yes. And Jadurani was rolling. Everyone was engaged. And on Saturday we prepared so many samosas, puris and sweetballs, kept in stock, and Sunday people were coming. At least seventy-five guests.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. In that little room...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gargamuni: ...in 26 Second Avenue.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gargamuni: It was packed up.

Prabhupada: Acyutananda's mother was coming. Sometimes your mother came? No.

Gargamuni: Not for a feast, but she came.

Prabhupada: No, she used to come. And kissing you. [laughter] He's very pet son of his mother. Sometimes I told her, "Mrs. Bruce, you can give us some money." "I have given my two sons!" And "That's all right."

Gargamuni: Angry. [laughs]

Prabhupada: I have met his mother. Is very nice lady.

Ramesvara: My family is very much afraid that they may lose another son to this movement. [Prabhupada laughs] They are very afraid of that. They know that this is so good. The books are so convincing.

Prabhupada: But I don't think your mother was any time angry upon me.

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupada: No. She liked at our...

Gargamuni: She knows we're leading a good life.

Ramesvara: We have one mother in Los Angeles of a girl named Lila-sakti. She's a big book distributor. And her mother, she loves this movement so much that when the deprogrammers start debating us, she stands up and yells at them that "My daughter was on drugs, hippie, before she came to this movement. This movement has saved her. If I had known about this movement when I was a young girl, I would have joined this movement!" On television she's speaking like that, very strongly: "You have no right to criticize! You don't know anything about this movement."

Gargamuni: Sravananda's mother too.

Ramesvara: She says, "You just come over to my house for lunch and I'll tell you all about this movement, how nice it is." She started this club, Parents for Krsna.

Prabhupada: Oh, she is very sincere. And her daughter, this Lila...? What is?

Ramesvara: Lila-sakti.

Prabhupada: She's wonderful girl. She's expert in everything. Hayagriva's mother, father?

Gargamuni: Yes. They wrote that letter.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, they personally came. And many fathers came to Los Angeles to give me thanks: "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come." They said like that.

Gargamuni: Srila Prabhupada, there's also another program which I think requires some financial assistance, is this boat program. In one month they sold ten thousand books, a group of ten men. And they go to so many villages. And I think if we can get a mechanized boat, a larger boat, they can go to so many places which usually takes so much time, because generally for them...

Prabhupada: Mechanized means...

Gargamuni: A diesel engine.

Prabhupada: ...then you'll require mechanics. You cannot ply or..., independently. If some mechanical wrong is there, then you are...

Gargamuni: No, we have our own men who service our vehicles. They know diesel engine.

Prabhupada: So there is no objection, but too much mechanical means you have to depend. You consider that.

Gargamuni: But then sometimes there's also no wind, and they have to sit for three or four days.

Prabhupada: So wind you cannot move. That is not safe.

Gargamuni: No, if there's no wind, then they can't move. And they have to have these men to... They walk on the shore and push the boat, and it takes so long. And there's so many villages that they can do. They can do thirty thousand books in one month if they had a boat which could travel freely. And I...

Prabhupada: Then what will happen to this boat?

Gargamuni: No, we can use both. But we want to expand the program.

Prabhupada: Hmm. So I have no objection. Money can be supplied, but it may not be another burden. That's it.

Gargamuni: No, we'll investigate the ship, because in Calcutta is a very big center of shipbuilding.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gargamuni: They build big ships there. And we don't have to limit our traveling simply in the river. We can also go along the coast of Bengal and also Orissa. There's so many villages. And if we have...

Prabhupada: Orissa... That means you have to go by the sea, Bay of Bengal

Gargamuni: Bay of Bengal. And there's so many villages along there.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gargamuni: You can do so much sahkirtana.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gargamuni: We could come...

Prabhupada: If... The Ganges comes in this way, then you come to Bengal, Bay of Bengal-this side, Orissa, this side, East Bengal. Is it not?

Gargamuni: Yes. They recently went to Sagar Island, and they did very nice sahkirtana there. So... But this boat is not large enough, and it's also very... It takes so much time.

Prabhupada: So why not another boat like that?

Gargamuni: But you can't get a larger boat than that, and it's too small. Our temple is too small. We need a longer boat with a larger temple for the...

Prabhupada: You require a steamer-like?

Gargamuni: A small steam..., a small fishing boat like those fishing boats. They have these big...

Prabhupada: It is run by petrol?

Gargamuni: No. Diesel.

Prabhupada: Diesel.

Gargamuni: Yes. I've seen them in Calcutta. Next time you come, we can walk on the Ganges side. They're about sixty feet long.

Prabhupada: So they are prepared in Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Yes. They make them there.

Prabhupada: You can have.

Gargamuni: And we can get a custom-made ship. Your Divine Grace may also want to take. From Mayapur we can go by boat. It takes only five or six hours by boat if we have an engine, and you may like the nice trip.

Hari-sauri: That'll be very nice.

Prabhupada: So how you go?

Gargamuni: And we can have cruises...

Prabhupada: No, how you go? You have to come to the sea? No.

Gargamuni: No. No. We go from Calcutta to Mayapur by boat.

Prabhupada: By boat. Then we can pass through this Naihati.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupada: Eh? Naihati is the other way?

Hari-sauri: Panihati.

Gargamuni: Panihati, yes.

Prabhupada: Panihati, ha. Panihati.

Gargamuni: You pass through... See, by this present boat it takes about ten days from Calcutta to Mayapur. It takes a long time. And if there's no wind, they have to walk on the shore. And the boat is too small now for our program.

Prabhupada: No, then you can take. What is the price?

Gargamuni: Well, I can only estimate. I have not gone deeply into it. But it will cost a few lakhs of rupees.

Prabhupada: Few lakhs?

Gargamuni: Yeah. [Prabhupada laughs] Well, it's a huge boat. But it can go on the sea. And we can do the whole coast of India. We can go all around the coast and do all the villages.

Prabhupada: Why so much? Few lakhs?

Gargamuni: Well, it's a huge thing. It's made of solid teak wood. It's a huge thing.

Ramesvara: It's dangerous, going on the sea.

Gargamuni: No, not if you have proper navigation. And this sea is not so... It's not a rough sea.

Prabhupada: Bay of Bengal is rough.

Gargamuni: I've been on the Bay of Bengal. No, actually I was not on the Bay of Bengal; I was near the mouth, in Bangladesh. It's rough...

Prabhupada: Bay of Bengal is very rough.

Gargamuni: But Sagar Island, isn't that in the Bay?

Prabhupada: Not actually in the bay. It is on the...

Ramesvara: Oh, we saw in Orissa beach, the Jagannatha beach, the waves are coming, very big waves.

Gargamuni: No, but I've seen fishing boats. I've seen them. They're small little boats.

Prabhupada: But they are accustomed. They can...

Ramesvara: We need some pretty good men if you start sailing the waves.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. We'll get a good navigator, definitely.

Ramesvara: You'll hire someone?

Gargamuni: No, we'll get a retired man. They'd love the work. Just like we have that engineer. He's a retired engineer. We pay him some small salary...

Prabhupada: Why you want to go by boat to the coast?

Gargamuni: Because you can't get by road. There's no roads. They're dirt roads. Many of the villages you can't get to except along the water routes.

Prabhupada: Hmm. But so far I know, it is very rough, Bay of Bengal.

Gargamuni: Well, we can invest... I know these ships in Calcutta. I saw at the pier at least five or six of these ships, these fishing boats, and they go up and down. I know if we take a...

Prabhupada: No, if you get a big boat, that is all right-ferry boat. But if you get a small boat, the sea is very rough.

Gargamuni: Sixty feet. Sixty, seventy feet. My father had a sixty-foot boat, and we went in the Atlantic Ocean, and it wasn't so bad.

Prabhupada: Atlantic Ocean is very rough.

Gargamuni: Yes. But we went there. We had a cruise boat. Actually it was forty-two feet. It was forty-two feet.

Prabhupada: And here it is sixty.

Gargamuni: You can get sixty, seventy. Whatever we want we can custom make. But then we can expand this. They did ten thousand books. We can do more books. And there's so many villages.

Prabhupada: Yes, there are.

Gargamuni: And now in Orissa we have so many books. We could send a boat here and do the whole coast. The coast of Orissa, we could sell so many books in these villages.

Prabhupada: So I have no objection. You consult amongst yourselves. I want expansion, that's all, some way or other. [laughs]

Gargamuni: But you can rest assured that I will investigate and see.

Prabhupada: Don't make it a burden.

Gargamuni: No, no, no.

Prabhupada: If it is properly utilized, do it. All right. Take rest. So you want this...?

[break] This is the only camp connected with that unfortunate sub house?

Indian man (1): I am also wondering.

Indian man (2): [Transl. I think the next house has it.]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (3): [Transl. Nearby a Babaji lives…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Does he have light?]

Indian man (3): [Transl. No. We have.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. No. We don't have light.]

Indian man (3): [Transl. It is fluctuating. The one in front of us also…]

Devotee: It is not the first day that it has happened.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee: It is not the first night that it has happened.

Prabhupada: Daily it is going on? Eh?

Devotee: Last night we had electricity, but the nights before that, we had no electricity.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please come and sit down.] [end]