Room Conversation – February 27, 1977, Māyāpur

The difficulty is nobody remains as wife, nobody remains husband

Prabhupada: ...aniya mahat-pado smariya gurave namah. In a short time he has learned very nicely.

I am surprised that he has learned so quickly. Very nice.

Radha-vallabha: Very intelligent boy.

Prabhupada: Yes. He should be given that.

Radha-vallabha: Anyway, he made one arrangement with another devotee to marry this devotee's daughter.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: He is nineteen years old, and he made arrangement with...

Prabhupada: This boy?

Radha-vallabha: Yes. The boy that wrote that. And he made arrangement with another devotee to marry her daughter at a later date. She's only twelve. So I've told him not to do anything until I spoke to you, because I don't think this has ever been done in our movement yet.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: I don't think anyone has ever done this before in our movement, the Vedic system. So I had a few questions about it. First of all I told them that they shouldn't associate until the actual time that they get married. That's true, isn't it?

Prabhupada: No, no, marriage, they do not speak. That is the disease in your country, that... There is no objection nineteen-years-old boy and twelve-years girl, it is very good combination, but the culture is so bad that after few days they will separate.

Radha-vallabha: Yes. That's the actual problem.

Prabhupada: If they stick to have one husband and one wife, it is very good. Or even the man can marry more than one wife. That is allowed in the Vedic system. The difficulty is nobody remains as wife, nobody remains husband. It is very dangerous. That is against Vedic... Otherwise man can have more than one wife, but woman cannot marry more than one husband. But the system-the boys and girls intermingle so freely, and in your country there is no restriction-naturally it becomes adulterated. That is the danger.

Radha-vallabha: So he wanted to know that...

Prabhupada: Knowing or no knowing, they'll not do it even. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll break. They'll promise and they'll break. How you can make them standardized? They will break.

Radha-vallabha: They have to be responsible people.

Prabhupada: They'll never become. That is my experience. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll never become. Almost impossible. They'll not keep standardized.

Radha-vallabha: So then it should just be up to them.

Prabhupada: What is the use of consulting? They'll promise and they'll break.

Radha-vallabha: Yes, you were telling me in Hawaii about that, that that is the difficulty. They have no responsibility. All right, I'll tell him that.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: I will tell him that.

Prabhupada: Otherwise there is no objection. I married; my wife was eleven years old.

Radha-vallabha: You were responsible, though.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Radha-vallabha: But you were responsible.

Prabhupada: Everyone is in India responsible. That is Indian culture still.

Radha-vallabha: Should... When they agree at this young age, they should wait till they get older, right?

Prabhupada: Yes. Generally a girl attains puberty at fourteen years, thirteen years. In India, because it is tropical climate... I think in Western countries they attain puberty not before fifteen, sixteen years. So although a girl is married before puberty, she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another, second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

Radha-vallabha: Is there a minimum age for the man?

Prabhupada: No. That is... Minimum age means generally the husband must be older than the wife, at least five years' difference.

Radha-vallabha: What is the most amount of years they can be different? What is the maximum amount of years there can be difference?

Prabhupada: Man has no maximum. Even an eighty-years-old man can marry a sixteen-years-old girl. [laughter]

Radha-vallabha: Because this one devotee has a daughter twelve, and he wanted to marry her to a man twenty-six, but he thought that was too much difference.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is too much difference. But eight years, ten years usual.

Radha-vallabha: Eight or ten years is best. So he also wanted to know if...

Prabhupada: That is healthy.

Radha-vallabha: He wanted to know also...

Prabhupada: And in no case... The girl must not be older than the boy. That's not good at all.

Radha-vallabha: At the time of the agreement, when they are not yet old enough, they do not associate at all. So not until the actual marriage do they associate or wear white or anything like that.

Prabhupada: No, even they can be married, but no association.

Radha-vallabha: No association. So the boy can be... If the girl has attained puberty say at thirteen, fourteen, even if the boy is only twenty, twenty-one it is all right. All right. I wanted to make sure. I wasn't allowing them to see each other. I wanted to make sure they weren't doing anything un-bona fide. So I'll tell him that. I have the... Jagannatha dasa has done synonyms for Brahma-samhita.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: For the Brahma-samhita printing, Jagannatha dasa has done some synonyms. Would you like to use the book also? I have the book here.

Prabhupada: No... Yes. [Prabhupada apparently looks them over] [break]

Radha-vallabha: So they're okay?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Radha-vallabha: Oh, good. When we print this book, should we distribute it freely? Should we distribute this book to the masses?

Prabhupada: No harm. So what is the arrangement?

Radha-vallabha: I was thinking that it would be nice to do it the way we do Bhagavatam, with the devanagari, transliteration, synonyms, translation and purport, say size of Isopanisad.

Prabhupada: Why not this boy help? He knows Sanskrit good.

Radha-vallabha: Yes. He works on every book. He proofreads the Sanskrit and Bengali.

Tamala Krsna: I have the... Mr... I forget his name. From Central Bank. The gentleman who saw you. So I filled out these cards, and he's willing to open this account now. This account... Until they open a proper branch here, this account is actually being held at Camac Street. It's called account number one, but it will be held in Camac Street, and when they open the branch then it will be shipped to here as account number one.

Prabhupada: But if we want payment here?

Tamala Krsna: Now, they want to know from us whether we want them to remain here after the festival.

Prabhupada: We have no objection.

Tamala Krsna: We have no objection. Okay. So as far as the... We want them, I think. If they don't remain here, then what is the use of opening account?

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Camac Street, I have got already account.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Now so far as the almirah goes, I discussed with them. So their understanding was that once they open their actual branch, they're going to be purchasing all their furniture in Calcutta and bringing it here. So they're just temporarily using it.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Tamala Krsna: So we don't want to charge them, I don't think.

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Let me first ask them, before you sign this, whether they'll keep it open. Because if they're going to close it now, there's no use in signing it.

Prabhupada: No. Because in Calcutta I have got already.

Tamala Krsna: Right. Do you want to see this gentleman again today?

Prabhupada: I have no objection.

Tamala Krsna: I'll see. He may not... I think he has other business. I'll find out.

Prabhupada: So that Jagannatha, he has come? No.

Radha-vallabha: No. He has stayed back in L.A. He just got married, so he has business.

Prabhupada: Let them... Let them do together.

Radha-vallabha: Yes. That's the system actually. There are some other... There actually is a big department. There are about eight or nine boys. They're all getting very good. Now Jagannatha had some questions on corrections in the book. In verse twenty-eight it says, "Then he worshiped Sri Krsna, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupada: Where it is? Brahma-samhita?

Radha-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Radha-vallabha: So it says, "Then he worshiped Sri Krsna, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupada: Where it is?

Radha-vallabha: It's verse twenty-eight, "Then he worshiped Sri Krsna." So Jagannatha said it should be, "Then he worshiped..."

Prabhupada: No, no. Jagannatha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.

Radha-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.

Radha-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just...

Prabhupada: Nothing of the... This should be strictly forbidden.

Radha-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupada: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Radha-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupada: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Radha-vallabha: So I'll just forget this, then.

Prabhupada: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.

Radha-vallabha: Oh.

Prabhupada: Arsa-prayoga That is his... He should not become more learned than the authority. That is very bad habit.

Radha-vallabha: He was always wondering how he should think. So I'll tell him that. He thinks, "If I think I see a mistake, what should I think?" I'll tell him what you just said.

Prabhupada: He cannot see mistake. He is mistake. [laughter] He should... That is being done by this rascal. I don't want. And the Hayagriva has..., the Easy Journey, he has changed so many things. That... He is now bad character. You should not maintain him.

Radha-vallabha: We should stop maintaining him.

Prabhupada: No. He has no responsibility even on his family.

Radha-vallabha: His wife just came to meet him in L.A.

Prabhupada: What she said?

Radha-vallabha: Well, she was asking me whether he would want to live with her. I told her that I didn't think so.

Prabhupada: Why? Why did you advise?

Radha-vallabha: I don't... He's not very responsible.

Prabhupada: Responsible or not responsible, they should live together.

Radha-vallabha: Yes, I know. So I've...

Prabhupada: But actually he's bad. He has gone out.

Radha-vallabha: So after he finishes the philosophy book, no more.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: He is still working on the philosophy book. So when he finishes that, that will be the last.

Prabhupada: Why finishes? Whatever is done is done. No more. I understand that he is intoxicated.

Radha-vallabha: All right.

Prabhupada: We cannot pay for his intoxication.

Radha-vallabha: I was thinking of stopping anyway. Now that you have said it, it makes it very simple. I can find a way that it will be done nicely. Practically there's nothing for him to do very important, anyway.

Prabhupada: Hmm. What is that?

Woman devotee (1): Medicine, Srila Prabhupada.

Radha-vallabha: So, also in the songbook... We will have to reprint that soon. The way it is now, I remember you also once told me that Acyutananda makes mistakes in the Bengali. And the Sanskrit department, Jagannatha and the others, say that there are a lot of mistakes that they would like to correct. Is that all right? Do you want synonyms? Do you want synonyms in the songbook? No? Okay. Now we are also doing a very nice cookbook. Yamuna is doing it. I passed on the instruction that you left in Madhya-lila that the recipes at Advaitacarya's house should be included. She's gotten practically all of those. She's going to put the cookbook together in such a way that it will be an example for Deity worship for all the temples, and we hope to have that finished this year sometime. That's all right?

Prabhupada: Last time Acyutananda was given some money. Still the same arrangement is there?

Radha-vallabha: I'm not giving him any money.

Prabhupada: No.

Radha-vallabha: I don't like this philosophy, that if someone does some service they should get money for it. That's business.

Prabhupada: I think he was paid some money.

Radha-vallabha: I don't know about that.

Prabhupada: Yes. This system is not good.

Tamala Krsna: So they have permission from the Reserve Bank to keep this extension open up to one month. I asked him, "How long will it take until you get the actual branch?" They said, "Somewhere between one and two months." So if we open an account, it's guaranteed that you will be able to draw money here up to one month's time. By then, either they'll open the branch, and if they don't, then whatever funds you have here will be transferred to your Calcutta account. And as soon as the branch is open, they will immediately transfer back here as account number one.

Prabhupada: That's nice. All right.

Tamala Krsna: So this requires your signature, and an initial deposit has to be made to open it.

Prabhupada: So I shall do it. I'm talking with him.

Tamala Krsna: So later on you'll do it, and I'll bring it to them. Okay.

Radha-vallabha: This system of the money, I stopped that in Los Angeles. It was becoming prevalent that whenever they wanted to do some extra service, they would want money. So I told them if they want money they can't do it in service to you. It has to be something else. Otherwise the whole thing is spoiled.

Prabhupada: No money.

Radha-vallabha: All right. I'll enforce that strictly. The only money is for rent and some small maintenance, eating. That's all.

Prabhupada: And if we have got our own place, no rent even.

Radha-vallabha: In some cases we do. The rents mostly are to Mayapur fund.

Prabhupada: And to... If there is no our place, then we'll pay rent.

Radha-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupada: Otherwise you must accommodate him in our place.

Radha-vallabha: Most of the rent I pay is to the ISKCON property account, and that comes to you, so it's...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: Most of the rents I pay are for the ISKCON property account, and that all comes back to Mayapur, etcetera, so there's no problem there. Also another thing is children's books. I was looking at the gurukula books. You don't want to get into that. Oh.

Prabhupada: They are not wanted. We have got one color book?

Radha-vallabha: Coloring book and Prahlada book.

Prabhupada: That is sufficient. No more.

Radha-vallabha: So gurukula should do their own books.

Prabhupada: Hmm? Why... That one book is sufficient. Why more books about this?

Radha-vallabha: Well, gurukula already has ten books, but they're printed very, very poorly.

Prabhupada: Why ten books? Not a single student knows well English, neither Sanskrit, and ten books.

Radha-vallabha: These are the Americans, American boys, American gurukulas.

Prabhupada: Why, I do not know. You just discuss this. They do not learn anything, and we are printing books.

Radha-vallabha: Those books they print themselves, the gurukula.

Prabhupada: "Themself" means?

Radha-vallabha: They have a little... In Dallas they had a little photostat machine, and Nandarani would write and they would print it.

Prabhupada: So it is waste of time-waste of money and waste of time.

Tamala Krsna: If they don't learn, what is the use of the book?

Radha-vallabha: In Los Angeles they are learning how to read.

Prabhupada: This policy is not good. Why?

Radha-vallabha: So before I get involved in it at all, I'll make sure Jagadisa speaks to you.

Prabhupada: No, no. We should not invest our BBT money in that way.

Radha-vallabha: I wasn't going to. That's what I wanted to mention.

Prabhupada: Strictly. It is not required, unnecessarily investing money. It should be noted.

Radha-vallabha: That's what I wanted to ask you about.

Prabhupada: Before investing money in anything, you should ask me.

Radha-vallabha: That was my question, that if a donation is given specifically for that...

Prabhupada: The donation may be given. That...

Radha-vallabha: So then it's all right.

Prabhupada: It should be invested very conscientiously.

Radha-vallabha: Yes. The money will all come back, too.

Tamala Krsna: The thing is, though, that when we get these donations, it's because we suggest that they be invested in a particular way. The people often state that. It's not that they're so dedicated to the particular way we invest the money. I've seen that very often. It's due to our suggestion.

Radha-vallabha: In some cases, but in other cases it's not possible to get money unless you... Like with the Laguna Beach people. Unless they know exactly what it's going for, they won't give something. And this is the type of thing that can inspire them to give a little money, especially the ones that don't give anything. Anyway, even if a donation comes, I won't do anything with it until I speak to you.

Prabhupada: No, donation may come for causes good, many, but investment must be conscientious.

Radha-vallabha: So I'll save it until I speak to you.

Prabhupada: Not that because you are getting donation very easily and you spend it, squander it, like that, anything. No. That should not be.

Radha-vallabha: In the book on the... I'll wait till you finish your medicine.

Prabhupada: So Jagannatha-suta should be strictly advised not to become very learned to correct authorities. No.

Radha-vallabha: Jagannatha dasa.

Prabhupada: Jagannatha? He is Jagannatha-suta or where he is?

Radha-vallabha: Jagannatha-suta is Back to Godhead. Jagannatha dasa is Sanskrit.

Prabhupada: Oh. That's it. He should not be very learned.

Radha-vallabha: I think that instruction you gave will help him very much about even if he thinks there is some mistake, just forget about it.

Prabhupada: He is mistake. He should not think his authority mistake.

Radha-vallabha: He didn't know what he should do. He didn't know where to draw the line.

Prabhupada: So why he should be given this business? He's such irresponsible man. He should not be given any responsible work. Our first business should see how he is advanced in devotion. We don't want so-called scholars.

Radha-vallabha: They just leave us.

Prabhupada: Leave, I don't mind. Just like he became a big scholar...

Tamala Krsna: Nitai.

Prabhupada: Nitai, he's a rascal.

Tamala Krsna: Big rascal.

Prabhupada: I think that Jagannatha is within his group? Nitai?

Radha-vallabha: Jagannatha was somewhat affected by Nitai, but he's...

Prabhupada: I know that.

Radha-vallabha: I think he understands what the problem was. I think he understands what his problem was, and that's why he won't do anything without asking you.

Prabhupada: Don't allow him to do anything.

Radha-vallabha: Well, now that this system of no corrections anywhere, that makes it very simple. Then he can't do anything. I don't think he wants to, either. It makes it more simple for him. It makes him very uncomfortable.

Prabhupada: No corrections. He can write that synonym, that's all, according to the translation. Who is writing the synonym?

Radha-vallabha: Jagannatha.

Prabhupada: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Maharaja.

Radha-vallabha: I don't think that's possible.

Prabhupada: Alpa-vidya bhayaṅkari. [little learning is dangerous-Bengali proverb] This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.

Tamala Krsna: Like a Professor Frog puffing up and then bursting.

Radha-vallabha: Nitai burst.

Prabhupada: Where he is now?

Radha-vallabha: I don't know. I heard that he was heading for America, then wanted to go back to India, some nonsense. I could find out if you want me to. [laughs]

Tamala Krsna: He wrote Prabhupada, "Your blessings..."

Radha-vallabha: I saw the letter.

Prabhupada: "...to find out better guru."

Radha-vallabha: That's like trying to get blessings to find a light brighter than the sun.

Prabhupada: Where is his wife?

Radha-vallabha: She left the movement some time ago.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Radha-vallabha: I heard there was some correspondence between them after he left you. Birds of a feather.

Prabhupada: So they are husband and wife still or not?

Radha-vallabha: I just heard from some women, so I can't trust it.

Prabhupada: Hmm. But she was pregnant?

Radha-vallabha: I don't know. She was living with her parents in Colorado, I think. He is from there also.

Prabhupada: He was polluted by the..., that Purusottama.

Tamala Krsna: Oh. That Mr. Dalmia's guru.

Prabhupada: No, no, not that Purusottama. Another, my... He says my Godbrother.

Radha-vallabha: The one that was making corrections in your books. Rascal.

Tamala Krsna: Oh. Yes.

Prabhupada: He was very intimately mixed. I think we are in delay delivering books, this Nitai.

Radha-vallabha: He used to send me corrections all the time, this Purusottama. I would throw them in the garbage.

Prabhupada: Still he sends corrections?

Radha-vallabha: No, no. This was years ago. Nonsense corrections, too. His own opinion.

Tamala Krsna: I'll just tell those men. They are waiting.

Prabhupada: So, you can take this. He can... On the basis of the translation, he can make the synonyms. And this boy is good. He should be engaged. He should guide. He knows Sanskrit letter. And I very much appreciate his writing. Tell him. He has done very nice.

Radha-vallabha: I will. I'll let him listen to the tape.

Prabhupada: He should be encouraged.

Radha-vallabha: All right.

Prabhupada: He is good boy.

Radha-vallabha: I have other things. I think I'll save them.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radha-vallabha: I have other things to ask you on other books. Would you rather I ask you a different time?

Prabhupada: Not now.

Radha-vallabha: Yes. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [offer obeisances]

Radha-vallabha: Tonight there will be a play. I heard it was after arati, first part of Ramayana.

Prabhupada: That's nice. I'll see.

Radha-vallabha: You're coming to see it? I'll tell them. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

Radha-vallabha: Jaya. [end]