771027rc.vrn
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: It will be bhavausadhi. So there is no other... I shall ask, whenever I require it, fruit juice. That is my food, and this kirtana is my medicine. And parikrama. Settle up this.
Prabhupada: Believe in Krsna. Hm. I am hearing kirtana how very nice here. It is stated in the sastra, nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhac chrotra-mano... [SB 10.1.4]. This is the medicine, panacea for material disease. So kindly let me hear kirtana as far as possible, long as I live. Eh? That is all right?
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada. Yes, Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: I'm thirsty. Fruit juice?
Satadhanya: Would you like some fruit juice now, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Guest (1): Everything is all right.
Prabhupada: It is improving?
Guest (1): Yes, it is. [break]
Panca-dravida: We have an arrangement now that Spanish BBT is sending funds every month to Hyderabad temple to finish the construction, and then, to pay back the loan that you gave, we're also sending in contributions to pay back that loan.
Prabhupada: So, (laughs) what do I need? The money is coming from outside. Never mind.
Guest (1): There is no lack of money, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So, in the temple everything is going on?
Guest (1): Yes, it's going on.
Prabhupada: People are coming?
Guest (1): Yes, many people are coming. It has become very...
Prabhupada: Popular.
Guest (1): It is already popular.
Guest (1): Everybody is concerned about your health.
Guest (1): Yes, everything is very, very much regulated now.
Prabhupada: Execute. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau **. Here it was vacant, my lot. Now, by Krsna's grace, so many people are coming. Prasadam distribution is going there?
Guest (1): No, Prabhupada. So far, they haven't started. When you were there for a few weeks, one or two weeks they had done it.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Guest (1): When you were there at Hyderabad, at the farm, for one or two weeks the prasadam distribution was there.
Prabhupada: Hm. Why? Why they are not distributing now?
Guest (1): They have stopped it.
Tamala Krsna: Probably they're not getting the funds from the Food Relief program. Just now the temples have started to send in money for Food Relief, so Jayapataka must be sending them money.
Guest (1): I don't know. Till I left, three days back, there was no distribution of prasadam.
Guest (1): When Prabhupada was there, continuously they had after you left for a week or two.
Guest (1): For a week or two. No, once in a while they were doing it.
Guest (1): But not daily.
Tamala Krsna: No, no, not daily. He said that on the weekends he does. In Mayapura they do on the weekends.
Bhavananda: We do every day. But on the weekends we serve khicuri, and during the week we serve...
Guest (1): But prasadam distribution had a real good effect in that time when it was started. Many people had started coming then. [break]
Prabhupada: ...see that prasadam distribution goes on.
Guest (1): The weather at Hyderabad is now pleasant.
Prabhupada: Now.
Guest (1): Yes. And it will remain for another two months.
Prabhupada: Very pleasant.
Guest (1): Now after this sarat-purnima, just a pleasant cool climate starts. And it's not moist or sultry there.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Guest (1): It is not sultry. In the daytime also it is quite pleasant, not very warm.
Prabhupada: Oh. Vegetable growing?
Guest (1): Yes, vegetables are...
Prabhupada: And rice, dal?
Guest (1): Paddy is good this year. They have grown. There was drought. For one month there had been no rains when it should have been, in September. Whole of September was dry. Otherwise entire twenty acres of paddy they had, and six acres which is fed from irrigation from tanks is very good. Paddy, maize also. [break]
Prabhupada: Things are improving.
Guest (1): Yes, they are. There is no worry as far as the management of the temple and farm is concerned.
Guest (1): Both are very much dedicated and devoted.
Guest (1): Tejiyas, his movements are too many. That is a problem.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Guest (1): He's not fully fixed up to the farm. But as far as temple now, it's very much regulated. Now after Sridhara Swami has come, it has been all perfectly streamlined.
Guest (1): Yes.
Guest (1): Yes, construction is... But except a very slow stage... That is not fault of the... Their labor, availability, and all that. They come and they just now come. It is a usual practice for these small, small things. I think it should finish now in about a month's time. [break]
Guest (1): One thing, Prabhupada, this discourse and all is not in the evenings, which should have been there. It was earlier, when...
Bhavananda: When Acyutananda was there.
Guest (1): When Acyutananda was there he was attracting crowds and...
Tamala Krsna: Acyutananda was giving good discourse.
Guest (1): Yes, he was every time, I think. When he was there, three, four hundred minimum crowd used to be there, and they used to take interest in question-answers. And it had become a lively, interesting...
Guest (1): Yes, good speaker, or... Or on this Caitanya philosophy daily, if some lectures are arranged and discourse is arranged. If you can permit, Prabhupada, there's Bhagavatam discourse in the daytime, and all of this kono(?) Hindi fluently on Caitanya philosophy... Yesterday I saw this rasa-lila also. If suppose some rasa arrangement also is made.
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Krsna: He says that there should be good speaker in Hindi. But Acyutananda could not speak Hindi.
Guest (1): No, no. His was a different thing, whether Hindi or English. He was attracting very big crowd.
Guest (1): His bhajanas and all that.
Guest (1): It has become more or less a pilgrim center. Anybody who comes to Hyderabad must visit.
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Guest (1): Yes, yes, definitely. After that Venkatesvara, Birla temple and these two temples, anybody who comes, they visit.
Guest (1): Yes.
Tamala Krsna: On the hill. But not as many people go... [break] ...successful temple, Srila Prabhupada. Two thousand people at the evening arati?
Guest (1): No, but they come for this discourse or education on our philosophy and all that. If that starts, it would be a wonderful thing.
Guest (1): It would be a really wonderful thing then. People would love to... There, in the South India, people are interested in such type of philosophy. And they discuss, they argue, they get convinced or they convince you, and they don't feel offended.
Panca-dravida: So many were coming for hearing Srila Prabhupada when he was there. Has Lokanatha Swami ever visited there?
Guest (1): Use of guesthouse also is made in the temple.
Guest (1): I think four rooms.
Guest (1): Yes. Sometimes people come stay.
Guest (1): Yes, members.
Guest (1): They're all well built. As far as management of the temple, management side is perfect. Financial side sometimes causes worry.
Tamala Krsna: That's good. The management is good. That is very good. Usually that is always a problem.
Guest (1): No, management side of both the farm and the temple is good. It's really, I should say, remarkable achievement.
Guest (1): He's very much devoted, dedicated.
Guest (1): That is a...
Prabhupada: Unless one is rogue, he would not like it. (laughs) Krsna consciousness...
yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana
sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12] These are the sastra... Mano-rathena. Those who are on the speculative platform, they cannot have their spiritual qualities. It is a... To the modern world it is a novel idea. It is not idea; this is original qualification. Part and parcel of God, it must be godlike. Gold is gold, maybe a small particle. Similarly, living entity, part and parcel of God, so it is God undoubtedlyin a small particle. But that is sufficient for his perfection. They are being misled other ways, in the wrong side. So who will not like it unless he's a rogue. Huh?
Gopala Krsna: Actually they would even give us permanent residency, but they are scared that if they give it to us they will have to give it to everybody else. So therefore they're not giving it to us.
Prabhupada: Never mind. We have got big establishment and our, these European and American young boys, they have been trained up. Otherwise, how could I manage? We have nothing to do with politics. Rather, we are giving social service. What we'll do, politics? It is not our business. There are so many people. So the government should give us chance to organize a society for the highest benefit of human being. And they can see from our books what is our idea. [break]
Gopala Krsna: ...printing books and exporting these books, and this way we're earning so much foreign exchange for the Indian economy. They liked it.
Prabhupada: Did you show them the invoice of what book already we have got?
Gopala Krsna: I told him the amount. I told him this year we have orders for Rs. twenty-five lakhs, and I said, "This is just the first year, and worldwide we print over eight crores. So this is just the beginning." So they liked it. And I also gave him the Hindi Bhagavatam like you had told me. And he turned out... This man who is handling our case is a Marwari, Mr. Pandy. So Marwaris are very pious. They're better than these others. So he liked the Hindi Bhagavatam very much. So I gave him the Hindi Bhagavatam and the English. [break]
Prabhupada: You are not to be gagged anymore?
Trivikrama: Not to be gagged. (laughter)
Gopala Krsna: That was our biggest problem. The president of India is presently in Hyderabad, so Mahamsa Maharaja was in Delhi, and we have a life member, Panilal Peddy in Hyderabad, Polareddy, who knows the President very well. So I asked Mahamsa Maharaja to go with Polareddy to the President to see if he will come to Bombay to inaugurate our temple. Also we are thinking of inviting some foreign ministers of countries like Nepal, which is a Hindu kingdom, and Mauritius. Because if these foreign ministers or some minister from these countries come, then it will lend more credit, and we'll get better coverage.
Prabhupada: You can show our South African success.
Prabhupada: So many.
Prabhupada: Who is the President?
Prabhupada: Ansen(?) Reddy, he was Home Minister? No.
Gopala Krsna: No, that was Brahmananda Reddy, who you met. We had a program at his house once.
Gopala Krsna: I think if Indira Gandhi would have been in power we wouldn't have got it. But Janata Party is better for us. Because Indira... Brahmananda Reddy would always say he'd give itI saw him several timesbut do nothing. [break] ...Party's a little more positive in this direction.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. And plus they're writing a letter to the Indian embassies abroad that if any ISKCON devotee applies, he should be given a three-year visa straight.
Prabhupada: That will be nice.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. But I was just speaking to Tamala Krsna Maharaja that the GBCs, we should devise a policy so that this advantage is not misused. Because sometimes devotees just come over here, stay here for some time, do some nonsense and go back.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Not just that anybody goes to an Embassy and they immediately get three years and they come here, they move around India, then in two weeks or two months they leave and go back. Then the government will not like it.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. And if some Americans find out that ISKCON had this special status, then someone can also pose as an ISKCON devotee and get this visa.
Atreya Rsi: So we should require that they have GBC authorization and..., with the Embassy.
Prabhupada: Our GBC should select. Not...
Atreya Rsi: Some way...
Gopala Krsna: Yes. That's what I've been talking to Tamala. [break] ...for devotee engaging in any antinational activity, then you can send him out. You had told me to say this earlier. So they felt reassured. [break]
Prabhupada: ...supplied?
Gopala Krsna: Yes. Tamala Krsna Maharaja has just given us four lakh rupees' loan. So I have given you a report, which he has. We have twenty-two books in print now in various...
Prabhupada: "A loan payable when able."
Prabhupada: Atreya Rsi, this kind of loan is very good.
Atreya Rsi: Very good.
Prabhupada: You take loan"payable when able." (laughter)
Gopala Krsna: We paid back the first BBT loanthe second three lakhsI paid it back three months ago. (laughs)
Prabhupada: That's all. (laughs)
Prabhupada: Oh!
Gopala Krsna: In various stages of production. Printing or composing or color... In the next two months, twenty-two books are coming out. By the end of December there will be twenty-two books given to you.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you must have good godown. Otherwise books will be stolen.
Prabhupada: And market it will be sold at cheap rate. Then it will reduce its importance.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Gopala Krsna: I also got the loan for the godown. So in November we are starting construction of the BBT godown in Bombay.
Prabhupada: Money you'll get. There is no scarcity. Atreya Rsi will give you.
Prabhupada: Their country is very rich now.
Prabhupada: Richest country now, Middle East. Everywhere we can make Vaikuntha by Krsna consciousness. Let people understand gradually.
Prabhupada: Who has got such substantial books? Nowhere in the world.
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I also spoke to the Chinese Embassy in Delhi yesterday. I said I'd like to go to China, and I wanted to find out what the possibilities were. So they said since I have Canadian citizenship, they said I should write to the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa. I told them I'm from a publishing house that publishes books on ancient Indian culture. And I found out that they do not teach any Sanskrit in China, but they have Hindi and Urdu departments. Peking University has a Department on Asian studies that teaches Hindi and Urdu.
Prabhupada: Let us introduce in Hindi.
Gopala Krsna: Our Hindi books. And actually that man I spoke to on the phone, he spoke such fluent Hindi I had to ask him three times if he's Chinese or Indian. He was Chinese.
Prabhupada: No, in Calcutta we have got many Chinese. They speak fluently.
Gopala Krsna: This Chinese was from Peking, not Indian-born. And also I was thinking we can say that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is one of the biggest printers in the world, and we are seriously thinking of buying Chinese paper for printing. And we can buy Chinese paper if it's good, because I found out that Chinese paper is as good as Japanese paper and it is cheaper.
Prabhupada: No, we can print there also in China.
Prabhupada: Yes, they have got paper.
Prabhupada: Sleeping means weakness.
Devotee: Weakness.
Prabhupada: No, too much sleeping means weakness.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Bhavananda felt it was due to not sleeping at night that you were sleeping during the day. But you slept an awful lot today. But yet...
Prabhupada: No, today avoid.
Tamala Krsna: Today avoid. Yet you say that... When I asked you, "Are you feeling more vitality?" you said, "I think so." In what way are you feeling like that?
Prabhupada: So tonight don't give me.
Tamala Krsna: No, that's all right. But what about that question I asked, Srila Prabhupada? When I asked you, "Are you feeling more vitality?" you said, "I think so." In what sense are you feeling more vitality?
Prabhupada: Anyway, tonight don't try to give me.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada, I cooked some boiled rice, boiled it for a long time, and some plantain. (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: That's good for stopping diarrhea. I think you should take some, Srila Prabhupada. Instead of taking the medicine, take a little of this prasadam. Is that all right?
Prabhupada: All right, I'll try to take.
Tamala Krsna: One thing I've seen is that although you're passing stool more, you're not passing out more, too much in sense of total amount of... Urine is less now. You're passing less urine. Stool is coming more, but urine is less.
Prabhupada: No, that is natural.
Prabhupada: If you pass stool, there will be less urine.
Svarupa Damodara: Natural passing of stool is good instead of taking by enema. It is good sign, actually.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Tamala Krsna: One hundred cc's, Srila Prabhupada, and clear. So urine is normal amount. Try to take a little bit to eat tonight, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I'll try.
Tamala Krsna: Svarupa Damodara brought an article from The Statesman about the news of the conference that was held here in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prabhupada: Oh, really?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Can't read it? Okay. Is there a flashlight? The heading, Srila Prabhupada, says, "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." Nonphysical view. "Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957. But the challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' " The challengers don't accept it, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vrndavana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Srila Prabhupada, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?
Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right.
Tamala Krsna: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gita. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."
Prabhupada: Hm. A good article.
Prabhupada: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.
Prabhupada: It is a good article.
Prabhupada: Now it will give thought that life is a different thing. It cannot be produced by material molecules. It is not possible. And Bhagavad-gita they referred. And Bhaktivedanta Institute we have organized.
Prabhupada: So it is good article.
Svarupa Damodara: When we say Bhaktivedanta, they only know Srila Prabhupada, because there's only one bhaktivedanti, so everybody knows.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Srila Prabhupada? There was a nice letter from Haridasa in Bombay. Should I read it to you?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. He wrote to the secretary, Srila Prabhupada. Haridasa. There's a letter written. He says, "Dear Tamala Krsna Maharaja, please accept my most humble obeisances at your feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Gopala Krsna Prabhu has shown me the voucher where ISKCON Bombay owed to BBT India Rs. 70,000. When Srila Prabhupada said he wanted to stay with us, I got greatly encouraged and had a desire in my heart to pay back this money to the BBT for Srila Prabhupada."
Prabhupada: Hm? I could not follow.
Prabhupada: I could not follow what he said.
Tamala Krsna: He says... He found out that the Bombay temple owed the BBT seventy thousand rupees. So he says when he heard that you had decided that you wanted to live and not leave us, he got very encouraged and inspired. So he decided on his own that he wanted to pay back this money to the BBT for you. He says, "I have been encouraging all the preachers here at ISKCON Bombay to go out and collect the money to pay off this debt to the BBT. Srila Prabhupada has made all this arrangement very easily because of his encouragement to us. Even devotees who have engagements where they are not likely to make a life member are making life members very easily and are collecting money. And even persons not expected to become members are now becoming members. This is all due to the desire in the hearts of the preachers here in Bombay to serve Srila Prabhupada. And by the grace of Srila Prabhupada, everything is coming very smoothly. This is confirmed in our hearts that without Srila Prabhupada, we cannot do any single work in this movement. Srila Prabhupada gives us encouragement just to kindly agree to stay with us. So yesterday, on Dasaratri, we collected over 21,000 rupees and made ten members." (Prabhupada laughs) He says, "We cannot express in English what we are feeling in our hearts, but we are all very encouraged to go out and collect for Srila Prabhupada and expand his life membership program, and we are all very thankful that Srila Prabhupada has been merciful and..." [break]
Trivikrama: By your mercy.
Prabhupada: No. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavat... Any devotee can become. That letter, mayor's letter also, it carries weight. What is his name?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. And the Statesman report, it is very very...
Tamala Krsna: Very encouraging. This Haridasa is transformed. You said that it was due to the mercy of a Vaisnava, Giriraja.
Prabhupada: Hm, yes.
Prabhupada: Vaisnava. Chadiya vaisnava seva, nistar payeche... Vaisnava's krpa... Vaisnava is already merciful. Vaisnava means merciful. Krpa-sindhu, ocean of mercy. That is Vaisnava.
Svarupa Damodara: Just like last night, Dr. Pathak, the Dean of the College of Veterinary, said Srila Prabhupada is a touchstone, can transform everybody.
Prabhupada: Hm. Bombay is the most rich city in India. And now they are willing to help us. So there will be no scarcity of money. Wherever you'll go, you'll get it.
Tamala Krsna: But that building, that project, is so nice, you don't have to go anywhere. They come to you and give money.
Prabhupada: So when it is going...?
Prabhupada: That building?
Prabhupada: That, another building or godown?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Panca-dravida: It is a long way from this grass hut we used to live in, Srila Prabhupada. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Gradually the whole world will be sympathetic. Everyone will recognize that they are doing real service.
Svarupa Damodara: It's already so famous in Bombay. Everybody knows, all the taxi drivers. You say, "Hare Krsna Land, Juhu." Everybody knows.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? We'll sit you up now for you to take a little bit of prasadam. All right?
Prabhupada: I think you have to cleanse my...
Tamala Krsna: Okay. First we'll cleanse, then we'll sit Prabhupada up. [break] For one thing, just like this prasadam that Bhakti-caru Maharaja prepared is good for stopping... It's against passing stool. It will make a binding effect. That's why I thought you might appreciate it. Bhakti-caru made it especially because of that. It's like medicine. But nice-tasting medicine. You could try.
Prabhupada: Yes, I can try.
Upendra: You can take the shoulders and... (indistinct)
Tamala Krsna: Many people were in the temple tonight. The kirtana party that has come from Mayapura, they were chanting Hare Krsna very sweetly, and the whole temple room was filled with people sitting, listening and waiting for the arati. Very nice program. Think you'll try to take a little now. Srila Prabhupada? Bhakti-caru can feed you.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Prabhupada: Hm. If you can make some resting place, then I can sit down more.
Prabhupada: It is giving pain.(?)
Tamala Krsna: We're just getting some round pillows from upstairs. That will be very good. They'll be here in a minute, Srila Prabhupada.
Bharadvaja: Srila Prabhupada? If you want, you can lean back. I'm holding the pillows in the back. [break]
Prabhupada: ...reported.
Prabhupada: You purchase few copies more. It is very important.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. This is a photocopy. I can get photocopies made. That will be easier probably than getting back issue. And cheaper too.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guest (2): "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." [break]
Prabhupada: Our... Our. O.B.L. Kapoor.
Guest (2): What does he say?
Tamala Krsna: He says life comes from atoms and molecules, Dr. Kapoor. This is his conclusion after all these years reading Caitanya Mahaprabhu's philosophy. He said like that in the conference.
Guest (2): He said?
Svarupa Damodara: He was saying there is nothing like table. He was sitting on a table. So it is just an imagination. There's nothing like that.
Prabhupada: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.
Tamala Krsna: In his book that he wrote, Dr. Kapoor quoted the great authority Ramakrishna. (laughter)
Jayadvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vrndavana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science. All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gita. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."
Prabhupada: How do you like article?
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?
Guest (2): Jaya.
Prabhupada: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.
Prabhupada: Yes, we have got enough place.
Tamala Krsna: Some people were thinking that Vrndavana is not a good place for building that hall, but...
Prabhupada: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.
Tamala Krsna: But we have no hall in that building. There's no... The place where they held the meeting last time is now going to become the restaurant.
Prabhupada: Let it become.
Prabhupada: That we shall have in..., conveniently, not immediately. Immediately there is Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. (Hindi) And the mayor, ex-mayor, has given telegram. Where is that telegram? This is a telegram... It says, "Pray God, Krsna, to give you long life to spread Indian culture in every nook and corner of the universe. Signed Raji K. Ganatra, ex-mayor of Bombay." He's very convinced, Srila Prabhupada, about Your Divine Grace and this movement, because he traveled around the world and stayed as a guest at our temples, and he was amazed to see how this Indian culture had actually been transplanted and taken root in all of these countries all over the world. He could not believe it. He was so amazed and impressed. He said that he's seen genuinely that this Indian culture has been taken up in true spirit.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-prasada: They've gone, preached, come back, but they have created devotee in every place in the world.
Prabhupada: "Brahman, Brahman."
Svarupa Damodara: Now Prabhupada's books are reaching almost every home all over the world, in all languages.
Prabhupada: That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta: mayavadi haya krsne aparadhi. While discussing with Prakasananda Sarasvati... "Caitanya," "Brahman," that's... Nothing like Krsna. Here they are doing, this Akshandananda, and what is his name? Another...? "Brahman Brahman." When they cannot explain anything"Brahman," bas, finished.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Hari-prasada: Yes, little strength, if he goes. That vaidya, kaviraja can come from Bombay. He had treated my father-in-law for about four-five years.
Hari-prasada: He is Bhayernathji(?), Pandit Bayernath.(?) He is friend of (indistinct). He's a very good Ayurvedic. [break]
Prabhupada: Stop the medicine.
Satadhanya: See the effect.
Tamala Krsna: I agree with your suggestion, Srila Prabhupada. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kaviraja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Hamsaduta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupada is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?
Prabhupada: Whatever little blood is there.
Bhavananda: I think it's a mistake, Srila Prabhupada, to take this strong medicine without having the kaviraja actually come and diagnose himself and...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satadhanya: Actually the kaviraja said to me that he never prescribes medicine without first seeing the patient.
Prabhupada: So bring him. And stop medicine.
Tamala Krsna: No, I think that's the right idea. This is not right, passing stool like this. This passing stool so many times is not right. It means that the medicine is not taking properly.
Prabhupada: Local kaviraja also said it will be very strong now.
Prabhupada: ...unless one is local.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that means Vanamali. First of all let us see this man, if he can come or what he says. Otherwise we may call Vanamali.
Prabhupada: And stick to him. Huh?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, we should stick to somebody. We have to have a little faith in somebody. Accepting and rejecting is not so good. To reject so many different times. Vanamali won't do any harm. Whether how much good, that's another matter. He's not bad.
Tamala Krsna: He's sincere. I don't think he cheated Srila Prabhupada. I still don't think so. [break] When Svarupa Damodara goes, he can take one of the pills which Vanamali made and show it to this kaviraja.
Prabhupada: That is impossible.
Prabhupada: No, seeing the pill, what to see?
Tamala Krsna: He may be able to recognize it has one of the types of makara-dhvaja. The main point is that Vanamali said it's makara-dhvaja. So by showing, he may be able to recognize, "Yes, this appears to be." At least we can get his opinion. Because that other kaviraja, that Ramanuji, threw some doubt on Vanamali's medicine, saying "This is not makara-dhvaja." So we're having some doubt and about it and Vanamali. If by seeing, this man would say, "Yes, this is one of the ways it's made. It does appear like this," then that would restore...
Prabhupada: No, he is coming. If he is coming, he can say here.
Tamala Krsna: But he may not come. He may, Svarupa Damodara may just get his opinion. So in case he does not come, by taking one of the pills there's nothing lost. We can get his opinion.
Trivikrama: What about the vegetable juice in preference to the fruit juice?
Tamala Krsna: The real thing is that Prabhupada is passing urine, and he is passing stool. So there's... What is the harm for taking vegetable juice? The main thing is that Prabhupada has to swallow it. If he can swallow it, it's being digested to some extent, because urine is coming and stool is passing.
Prabhupada: When stool comes, urine does not come.
Tamala Krsna: Right. No, there's something definitely... Something is amiss, that instead of coming out as urine, it comes out as stool. [break]
Bhavananda: But you did say Krsna advised you through this dream to take that medicine.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: You said that Krsna directed you through that dream to take that makara-dhvaja medicine. So there are six different types of makara-dhvaja.
Tamala Krsna: Gopala Krsna told me that Jayapataka Maharaja had called him and said that they have arranged for one Ramanuji kaviraja there in Bengal side, and everything was ready if you can come there. Can you bring him here?
Bhavananda: They have their medicines and everything there.
Prabhupada: He has?
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: He wears Ramanuja tilaka, he's got good recommendation from L. M. Bangor.
Trivikrama: But how can Prabhupada travel?
Devotee: But Prabhupada cannot travel, because any movement will disturb his kidney.
Prabhupada: He cannot come?
Tamala Krsna: Well, it will be the same as the man from Delhi. He can't come and stay here and give up his practice. He stays in Calcutta, so... He won't be able to simply come and then... He'll leave, and then we won't be able to consult. The idea is that the man has to be here every day.
Bhavananda: He'll only have to come once, you mean, and prescribe makara-dhvaja.
Prabhupada: No... [break] ...said there is a good kaviraja?
Tamala Krsna: I don't know how it is that approved this one, but according to Gopala, Jayapataka says that he's arranged one Ramanuji kaviraja.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Why not consult him?
Prabhupada: Go.
Tamala Krsna: No, I mean the point is you would have to go there. See, they want to see you, Srila Prabhupada. Actually this is not the... You know, generally a kaviraja wants to see the person that he's giving the medicine to so he can know...
Prabhupada: So if he agrees to take up the case, I'll go.
Bhavananda: He'll take up the case. That there's no doubt.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, but will he come every day to Mayapura or stay in Mayapura? That is the question.
Svarupa Damodara: First of all, if he can come at least for a few days here, if it is possible, and if he examines, then, if we make the next move, I think that will be wiser.
Prabhupada: Yes. If somebody goes and brings him, then he decides. Then we shall go.
Tamala Krsna: Svarupa Damodara, you could call direct to Calcutta and talk with Adri-dharana, who has contacted him, and let him discuss and see if he can bring him here. First of all, he should ask whether the man is willing. We can fly him here to Delhi and bring him here. I'm sure he'll agree to that. But it should be... He should be...
Prabhupada: ...bring one Ramanuja. He has the makara-dhvaja. So if... Bhavananda has suggested, somebody very responsible go and bring him. And then, if we can, we shall go together. Hm?
Prabhupada: In the meantime, all medicine stopped. Hm?
Bhavananda: There's no loss in stopping the medicine at this point, because this medicine is not improving your condition.
Prabhupada: No.
Bhavananda: We want some positive improvement.
Prabhupada: If in the meantime I die without medicine, so I am dying. What is wrong? The parikrama may go on.
Prabhupada: Liquid, from practical suggestion, I'll take little vegetable juice, that's all.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: No loss in taking fruit juice. When you were not taking the medicine a few days back, you were taking fruit juice every day and not passing stool. When you were in Delhi and Prabhupada was taking fruit juice every day, he was not passing stool. So there's no loss. We can take vegetable juice, fruit juice, vegetable broth. [break]
Prabhupada: ...reacting adversely. That is proved. Hm?
Prabhupada: And janiya suniya visa khainu. It is acting adversely. If still I take, then, knowingly...
Trivikrama: Drinking poison.
Prabhupada: Hm. That is...
Prabhupada: No, consulting... When we want direct treatment, how you can consult him?
Svarupa Damodara: We can at least tell the report. We can at least inform him that after taking this medicine we have such-and-such symptoms, so...
Bhavananda: Still, that's fourth-hand information. And he's not a Ramanuja sampradaya. The only reason we were looking... We were looking for makara-dhvaja... (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/oct/vrndavana/october/27/1977 Previous: Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana Next: Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana
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