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770109r2.bom
Room Conversation
January 9, 1977, Bombay Prabhupada: Then somebody must be there to look after the construction.
Gopala Krsna: We can send one boy, Vijeta, from here. He's not doing very much, and he's on the construction department. I was just waiting for Saurabha to come back.
Prabhupada: Very bitter.
Prabhupada: So? You had been there?
Jagadisa: We're going... All three of us are going.
Prabhupada: So what other news?
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I had previously told you that the BBT was... Because it's doing very heavy printing at the moment, say, for two months we need a little loan.
Prabhupada: You showed me you have got four lakhs.
Prabhupada: I know that. That is called para-hasta tatam dhanam puti-gata-vidya. "I am very learned man." How? "Now I can speak when I see the books." That means "Personally, I have not assimilated anything. I can... And I have got money. I have to realize this." (laughter)
Prabhupada: That's nice, but the money is not in your hand.
Gopala Krsna: He sends twenty thousand rupees every month and... These are books that... Last month only he hasn't sent us. These are books that are already sold.
Prabhupada: So realize this money. Otherwise, what is the value of this money if you cannot realize?
Prabhupada: So anyway, they are selling books. They must pay.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. Yes. So I was... If we could get a loan of one lakh for two or three months, because now we are printing the Gita and the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto.
Prabhupada: So that I can give, loan. I am giving...
Prabhupada: But you never return.
Gopala Krsna: I returned all your loans. In Vrndavana loans were all... We haven't taken any loan in Vrndavana. The only loan which I didn't return was which was taken from Mayapura two years ago with Jayapataka. They're, (I'm?) supposed to pay back. The BBT...
Prabhupada: So now you... Our big business brain is here, Ramesvara. If he recommends, I can do.
Ramesvara: For his...?
Prabhupada: He wants one lakh loan. So if you recommend, I'll give.
Ramesvara: Who's going to drive the party?
Ramesvara: The loan is for book printing?
Ramesvara: Then who's going to pay for the vehicles? You are, right?
Ramesvara: I think the loan is for the vehicles. Who's taking out the party? (laughter)
Prabhupada: Now, cool headed, you can study the situation. If you recommend, I'll give.
Prabhupada: No, you convince him. If he recommends, I'll give you. He is businesslike. I know him. So if he recommends, I'll give. He's very correct to his word. Businessman is correct to his word. That is the... No speculation. Now our Hyderabad affair is not in very order.
Prabhupada: So what to do? Ramesvara, you are here. You can see. They are not cooperating. And besides that, Mahamsa takes loan. He never returns. He has taken about five lakhs for the temple. So I have already told to the auditor and the... They are (indistinct). This is going on.
Prabhupada: So you keep account in such a way that whatever income it is, it is spent for books. Print some... You also do there. Whatever income you get, you spend for promotion. This principle should be followed. All businessmen are doing that. Whatever income is there, it is spent for maintenance establishment. That's all.
Prabhupada: And grhastha devotees who are actually engaged, you can give them some expenditure.
Prabhupada: That is sufficient.
Prabhupada: For child only?
Prabhupada: They have no expenditure. What expenditure? They are getting free boarding and lodging. Maybe little. But that our ISKCON can supply. Of course, one who has got children, they require little. So manage like that, that there is no profit. That's all. Keep account in that way. So this one lakh of rupees, if you take, when you'll return?
Gopala Krsna: I'll return it by March, because on this export order, it's very high profit just on the...
Ramesvara: When you borrow, do you give Srila Prabhupada interest on it?
Gopala Krsna: We can give. I have never borrowed so far money. I haven't borrowed a penny so far except once when I came...
Prabhupada: "That I did not pay." (laughs) When he takes money, he says, "No, it is not to be paid." Therefore it is no borrowing. Several times I have given you money.
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I've never borrowed... Just once, Jayapataka's loan, right when I came to India.
Prabhupada: All right. Now if he recommends, I'll give.
Gopala Krsna: And since the Vrndavana temple opened, we did about three, four lakhs' worth of construction, without taking one penny from you.
Prabhupada: I am giving one lakh rupees per month.
Gopala Krsna: No, no. That is for Gurukula. Plus we contributed about three lakhs to Gurukula's construction. Two lakhs.
Prabhupada: Now we are paying two lakhs per month.
Gopala Krsna: In the initial stages the Gurukula construction was done from the money that we had collected in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: No, from the beginning I am paying.
Prabhupada: So that day is nice?
Pradyumna: February 2nd. It is Wednesday, Bhudvar. There is one good... (?)
Prabhupada: So in Orissa you'll be also there?
Ramesvara: They want me to go back to Los Angeles for that concert, because the governor is coming. That popular Hindu singer, Lata Mangeskar, she's giving a benefit concert in Los Angeles on January 30th.
Prabhupada: So who will be the big ticket purchaser?
Ramesvara: Satsvarupa. Oh. You mean in Los Angeles?
Ramesvara: There are approximately eight thousand Hindus living in Los Angeles, and we have rented one auditorium that seats six thousand people. So if they only sell two thousand seats, it does not cost any money. It covers all the expenses. Anything over two thousand seats is profit for ISKCON.
Prabhupada: So how many Indians are there?
Ramesvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert because she is very popular. Gopala sent one devotee, Jagat-purusa, to manage the ticket selling.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is expert.
Ramesvara: And we are trying to print one souvenir book also and take advertisements from local stores and shops. In this way we will also make money.
Prabhupada: So you have to go back? [break]
Ramesvara: They want me to be there to make sure the concert is a success. And Satsvarupa Maharaja is coming for Kumbha Mela. So he's planning to stay on with you for the whole month of February and March as secretary.
Prabhupada: Oh. And you are going to Vrndavana?
Jagadisa: ...has business there to be...
Prabhupada: Anywhere, this is our main program. Print books as many as possible and distribute. This is our main program. All other programs are secondary. So with this aim in view, work all together. Our Caitanya-caritamrta is unique literature. For Caitanya-caritamrta, we are above any acarya. There are four acaryas: Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami... But our Gaudiya Vaisnava, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's legacy, acarya's, that is unique. Anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirna kalau. Here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is personally teaching-acarya. Anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirna kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam. The highest topmost bliss, madhurya. These dealings of Radha-Krsna, madhurya-rasa, is the contribution of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All other acaryas, they could not give up to this. All other acaryas, they contributed up to friendship, no vatsalya, neither madhurya. That is this contribution of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. There was dealings of mother Yasoda with Krsna in the Bhagavata. The Vallabhacaryas'...,they have got Bala-krsna. But the dealings of gopis with Krsna, that was not granted. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's contribution. Anarpita-carim means was never contributed. Anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirna kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam, harih puvata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandipitah sada hrdaya-kandare sphurati... That is the Caitanya-caritamrta. How do they like Caitanya-caritamrta in Western...?
Ramesvara: The devotees like it. They relish.
Prabhupada: It is for the devotees. It is not for the neophyte.
Ramesvara: It's a little difficult for the average man if it is his first book.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not for the neophyte. Those who are actually in devotional servicefor them it is.
Ramesvara: Mostly we are selling Bhagavad-gita, ratio of two Bhagavad-gitas for every other book, twice as many Bhagavad-gitas, as an introduction.
Prabhupada: That is the introduction. And Srimad Bhagavatam?
Ramesvara: First Canto. Mostly First Canto. We're only printing twenty thousand copies of every volume. But of First Canto we always print fifty thousand copies. And now Bhagavad-gita, we have printed one and a half million copies.
Prabhupada: That's abridged.
Ramesvara: For one year's sales.
Prabhupada: That's very nice. (laughs) One and half million.
Ramesvara: They say it is the largest printing in the history of the Western United States. They are giving Bhaktivedanta Book Trust credit now for the largest printing of any publisher in the Western United States for one title. And for our printer, the only books... He has never printed... He prints encyclopedia, he prints the Bible, but he has never printed so many copies of one book all at one time. This one and a half million copies should be printed all at once.
Prabhupada: They are proud of printing.
Ramesvara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: (laughs) That is good.
Ramesvara: He says that his press will have to run continuously for twenty days and twenty nights just to print all these books without taking any other business.
Prabhupada: That's a great...
Prabhupada: They have very big, big printing press.
Ramesvara: They are so proud that they have offered to hold a big press conference to announce to the press and all the journals of printers that they have gotten this order to print so many copies of Bhagavad-gita from the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.
Prabhupada: Let them say that. This is our advertising. And let this opposition party understand that "If it is brainwash, then your whole country is now washed. (laughter) How you'll protect them? It is already washed." Tell them like that, humorous.
Ramesvara: The price of this printing...
Prabhupada: Very cheap. No, we are supplying also very cheap.
Ramesvara: Yes. But last year we printed 500,000 copies, this year, one and a half million copies, and the savings was $200,000. We have gotten them to reduce the price so much that now, just because we have ordered so many books, we will save 200,000...
Prabhupada: Why not spend some money for advertisement? It will be noticed.
Prabhupada: Nice advertisement. Spend some money.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: No, no. As Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Actually, we have to keep ourselves.
Prabhupada: If you have got excess money, you can advertise. There is no need of keeping money. Spend.
Ramesvara: Money will be excess after the Mayapura Festival.
Prabhupada: That's right.
Ramesvara: Between now and Mayapura it's very tight.
Prabhupada: Very prestigious papers like Time, Reader's Digest. Reader's Digest is the highest circulation.
Gopala Krsna: Yes, in the world. Srila Prabhupada, the Sunday New York Times has a big section just on books, and that's the most respected in the world, their books section and their book reviews. That is very prestigious. All the leading people read it.
Prabhupada: But wherever you advertise, it must be prominent. It must immediately come to the notice. You can spend little more.
Gopala Krsna: Actually, this advertising will also increase our college orders, because even college professors and librarians read papers. So when our salesmen go there, they'll say, "Oh, I saw your advertisement in the papers."
Prabhupada: On nice pages(?) you just give your... Another proposal was that, some New York or somewhere somebody is proposing to sell individually. Who was that?
Jagadisa: Encyclopedia?
Prabhupada: Like that.
Prabhupada: Who was speaking about that? You told me? Somebody told me.
Jagadisa: Giriraja, I think.
Ramesvara: It's a little difficult, because the way they sell encyclopedias is they leave all the books at one time, and then the person every month makes a monthly payment. So if he refuses... Once he reads the book and finds out that it is telling him to be Krsna-bhakta, he may stop sending his money.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gopala Krsna: And also it's becoming hard to enter these houses in America. In fact, door to door salesmen are having a difficult time now. Because of security reasons, they don't let any outside peddlars into the building.
Prabhupada: That is always, trespass. Their trespass law is very strict in USA. There are dogs, and there are revolver, and trespasser, if he is killed, there is no offense. Is it not? It is very dangerous. I know one incident in New York. Some yogi came. So he was... You know that? So I became very irritated. So I asked him, "Get him out immediately." So my men got him out. He went to the police and he said that he was assaulted and so on, complained. The police came and inquired. So there were so many inquiries. But I did not know... Then I said that "He came to me without invitation." "Oh!" Immediately he dismissed. "I did not ask him to come. He came to me and disturbed me." So immediately, "Oh..." He decided. He said, "Oh..." So that law is very strict. And that is very good. Nobody can come without invitation or engagement. Otherwise they trespass. Is it?
Ramesvara: Sometimes they use this law against us.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Ramesvara: We're coming to these shopping centers to sell our books and they say, "We have not invited you. Please go away." It is called the right of the property owner to allow on his property whoever he wants. So these gigantic shopping centers invite the public to buy only from them, not from us. So they restrict us.
Prabhupada: They are not inviting us.
Ramesvara: No.
Ramesvara: Our book-selling is going on on the public property, like the airports. But the stores and the shopping centers are privately owned, so it's illegal. Sometimes our men will do it anyway, take a chance in disguise.
Prabhupada: So they are taking risk for Krsna. That is great service. Krsnarthe 'khila cestah. That is one of the valuable servicefor Krsna's sake, all kinds of dangerous position. Somebody's knocking.
Gopala Krsna: I'll explain this to Ramesvara, and if he approves, then... Because now we have just finished hundred thousand Gitar Gans...
Prabhupada: Anyway, it will be paid. Just wait. (hums)
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, would you like to see some photographs of Bharadraja's work? I'll go get them.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Palika: What kind of dahl would you like today?
Prabhupada: You can make like yesterday.
Palika: Also, I have brought (indistinct) from the bazaar.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Palika: In which subji should I put?
Prabhupada: Put in the posta. But you must (mash?) take out the skin.
Palika: Yes.
Ramesvara: These were taken just before I left Los Angeles. This is a figure of Krsna from the rasa-lila being dressed in cloth.
Ramesvara: This figure is going to be Lord Gadadhara in the exhibit of the Panca-tattva dancing at kirtana. She is just beginning to make the form.
Prabhupada: So you have got any business?
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: So let... Let me finish [break] ...but devotees of... Oh.
Ramesvara: These two pictures show dolls being painted.
Ramesvara: If she will come, she can be engaged in many ways.
Prabhupada: She is also very expert.
Ramesvara: She doesn't like the weather in Los Angeles.
Prabhupada: Doesn't like? Why? What is wrong there? Los Angeles is very nice. I like Los Angeles.
Ramesvara: Only the spring and summer. I think it's in her mind.
Prabhupada: Los Angeles is very nice. What is this?
Ramesvara: This is going to be one of the demigods in one of the exhibits. The painting is very, very expert. I've seen some of the dolls that are painted. They look alive.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Ramesvara: Even in the eyes there is a little moisture as if the eye is...
Prabhupada: Very natural. So I see the dolls... Intelligent boys, they can do it, educated, intelligent. Very good, nice. So many students are engaged...
Ramesvara: This is like pottery. Spinning on the wheel, he is designing the ornaments for the crown. Each doll of the demigods has a different crown. That's how they make them, on a spinning wheel just like a potter.
Prabhupada: They are devising their own way. Eh?
Ramesvara: Sometimes.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Prabhupada: Oh, lying down.
Ramesvara: Very big. He's bigger than a human being.
Prabhupada: Accha.
Ramesvara: And this will be the Universal Form. He will have many heads and many arms. And with the controlling the lighting, His image will appear in mirrors on the ceiling and on the walls, so everywhere you look you'll see Him.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs) All-pervading. It is very, very good improvement, encouraging. People will enjoy this.
Ramesvara: And He is lying on Sesa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.
Prabhupada: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"
Ramesvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.
Prabhupada: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.
Ramesvara: These are the heads for the Sesa-naga of this Maha-Visnu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.
Prabhupada: Accha. How rubber you make mold?
Ramesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: You do yourself?
Ramesvara: They do, yes.
Prabhupada: So what is the benefit of rubber?
Ramesvara: It has something to do with the curves.
Prabhupada: Oh. In clay, it cannot.
Ramesvara: They started manufacturing it, at a time. That's what they used. This is a doll of Krsna speaking to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra.
Prabhupada: Very good. Nobody can think it is doll. How many men are engaged?
Ramesvara: I think thirty devotees. That includes all the carpenters and...
Prabhupada: And they are becoming expert so that in future many other also.
Ramesvara: This is a doll of Lord Caitanya. That devotee is Adideva. He was here, in India studying with Bharadraja.
Prabhupada: I simply see how the devotees are engaged in so nice occupation. This painting, this taking, thinking of Caitanya, thinking of Krsnathis is Krsna conscious. That is... Nobody can deny. When he's working in this way he cannot think of other way. That will elevate him, simply by thinking. Man-mana. He'll derive greatest benefit. He'll become devotee. He'll get liberation from this material world simply by doing that. It is so nice. So in all our centers have this doll exhibit.
Ramesvara: This is Lord Nityananda. Very blissful.
Ramesvara: These little dolls are Gandharvas. There will be over two hundred of them in the Universal Form exhibit.
Prabhupada: Who is the girl?
Ramesvara: That is one of the doll makers' wives.
Prabhupada: What are the small?
Ramesvara: Those are the Gandharvas. Each Gandharva... There are hundreds of them. They have their own outfit, different colored dresses and different ornaments, all made by hand.
Prabhupada: So small?
Ramesvara: Yes. Because there are hundreds of them. But in the mirrors there will be millions of them.
Prabhupada: Accha. (laughs)
Ramesvara: Filling the whole sky and all directions.
Prabhupada: Very good. So encourage them.
Ramesvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kuruksetra, and then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Krsna and Arjuna on the chariot.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.
Ramesvara: It is like you wrote in that letter to Tamala Krsna: "They did not mind when the children were hippies, taking drugs, having prostitutes. But now that they have joined Hare Krsna, now they are kidnapping you. They did not protest formerly when they were engaged in all sinful life. Now they are completely pure. Now they are complaining."
Jagadisa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.
Ramesvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.
Prabhupada: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Krsna. This is advancement.
Ramesvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.
Prabhupada: Yes. They do not become tired. Krsna conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Duralage hurahuri. (?) Competition. This is spiritual.
Ramesvara: This is one devotee who is painting dolls of the demigods.
Prabhupada: Aiye, aiye.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, these people come from Muscat. That's where I went last month. [break] (Hindi)
Ramesvara: ...supervises all the work.
Prabhupada: Yes, he should be engaged for propaganda.
Ramesvara: For every exhibit Bharadraja has to make a complete drawing.
Prabhupada: His wife is also helping?
Ramesvara: She is doing the sewing for the clothing. The whole show will be finished before Mayapura, and Bharadraja is coming for the festival. Then right after the festival we will go back to Los Angeles and have the grand opening.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Ramesvara: When it is finished, then we'll take color pictures and send them in case you're still in India.
Prabhupada: By the month of...
Ramesvara: It could be April. The grand opening, I think...
Prabhupada: I may go there some time. From London to Los Angeles there is direct plane. Takes about ten hours, eh?
Ramesvara: Ten hours at least. Los Angeles to New York is five and a half, and New York to London another five hours, six hours.
Prabhupada: Or in this way, about twelve hours, via...
Ramesvara: Too long a flight, I think. It would be better... It's too long a flight.
Prabhupada: That directly from London to... That is the same?
Ramesvara: Too long.
Prabhupada: Too long.
Ramesvara: Usually stopover in New York.
Prabhupada: No, another northern flight from Paris and from London it goes directly to Los Angeles.
Ramesvara: Yes, it's possible but it's very uncomfortable.
Prabhupada: (sic:) Unstoppage, eh?
Ramesvara: Nonstop. I flew from London to Delhi nonstop.
Prabhupada: That is eight hours.
Ramesvara: Eight hours.
Prabhupada: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefitedfrom material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. [break]
Ramesvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Krsna. Of course, Hare Krsna is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Krsna took part. Krsna instructs everything.
Ramesvara: The whole war of Kuruksetra was just so Krsna's devotees...
Prabhupada: Yes. It was designed by Krsna. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Krsna. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-matram bhava savya-sacin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Krsna's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Krsna... Paritranaya... He has got two business. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. This is another side of His business. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jan/bombay/january/09/1977 Previous: Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay Next: Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay
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