Satsvarupa: They should give something for taking prasadam. [break]

Prabhupada: ...anna-sambhavah.

Satsvarupa: "Surrender to Me." Parjanyad anna-sambhavah.

Prabhupada: Then there is rainfall...

Satsvarupa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Then there is foodgrain. We see this dry land... Because for the last few days, when changing his water he's pouring water here, we see grass growing. Water required. A vast tract of land here is lying. If there is sufficient rainfall you can very easily grow food. But so far rainfall is concerned, it is not in your hand. You rascal scientist, why don't you arrange for this? Everyone knows that from the sea, water is evaporated and is made cloud and thrown all over the land. So why don't you do that? There is enough water.

Satsvarupa: It's too big a job. They can't... It's too big a job.

Prabhupada: Then what kind of scientists?

Satsvarupa: They can do a tiny bit in a laboratory, make some water.

Prabhupada: So still, we have to accept them scientist?

Satsvarupa: Everyone is simply bluffed by their word jugglery and by whatever little bit they've done. They say, "We've done this. Now you must worship us." And people are indebted.

Prabhupada: So we have to challenge them like that. And as soon as you challenge, "Yes, wait millions of years." That's all.

Satsvarupa: They say, "Actually we are working on that, how to make rain."

Prabhupada: Hm?

Satsvarupa: They'll say, "Yes, actually we are working on that problem of making rain."

Prabhupada: What is the working? People are suffering; you are working. There is a Bengali proverb, sate kusti dolpe gelun.(?) There was a big fair. One has to go there. So he began to dress himself nicely. So the time occupied for dressing, in the meantime the fair was finished. (laughs) Sate kusti kolpe gelun.(?) These are practical. You need immediately water. These rascals say, "Yes, wait. Wait for future."

Satsvarupa: "Wait and give us billions of dollars. Research."

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Why shall I wait? Immediately necessary. You have no such power to evaporate the water and make into cloud and distribute. Very easily it is being done. Then why don't you accept somebody's doing that?

Satsvarupa: If a scientist will accept there is God, then there is no harm in making scientific progress.

Prabhupada: Then they will hear the words of God, Bhagavad-gita. Then everything will be solved. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah [Bg. 3.14]. Then he will hear. They will chant Hare Krsna and there will be rain.

Satsvarupa: If we condemn everything they do, then they say, "All right, if you think we're nonsense, then don't use our printing press for your books."

Prabhupada: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people were not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brahmanas, they used to copy and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that... The same logic: The dog is running, four legs, you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.

Satsvarupa: Because it is modern times, the Krsna consciousness movement can keep pace with all these things, but we don't need them. We can use this, but if we don't have it, then we don't need it.

Prabhupada: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?

Satsvarupa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.

Prabhupada: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.

Satsvarupa: They can't do it, but then, when we say, "Rains will come by yajna," they'll say "No."

Prabhupada: No, that is... You don't believe it, but here is the... That means you do not believe in God. Why don't you make an experiment? Ask everybody to chant Hare Krsna, kirtana. As soon as you say you don't believe, then you don't believe in God, "God says." That is your disease. I can give you so many points. You have to elaborate it.

Satsvarupa: Yes. You give them already elaborate.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Satsvarupa: You give everything.

Prabhupada: Water is there.

Palika: Accha.

Prabhupada: Lunchtime you'll make some capati, very thin. I think I shall take capatis, a little rice. I'll give you instruction.

Palika: And what?

Prabhupada: And at the time I shall tell you. Not any of the same thing. (chuckles) Everyone wants to cook for me.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: But this girl, (laughs) she travels all over the world, spending her own money or society money?

Satsvarupa: Society. She's the only one who's actually regular that is doing it good.

Prabhupada: No, she is very responsible. Whatever I say, at least she tries to do it best. That is her qualification. Nei, everyone is doing. Nobody's...

Satsvarupa: Yes. Nanda-kumara wanted to do that.

Prabhupada: Yes. Nanda-kumara, as a sannyasi, he should better preach. I have no objection. It is up to you to decide. I don't give much credit to the scientists. I give them credit as far as they deserve. It is not that I don't give them credit. Why shall I not? But they deny the existence and they say "We shall conquer over nature, and we shall make according to our necessity." These rascals I challenge.

Satsvarupa: Just like you give credit to your cook.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Satsvarupa: But that does not mean that the cook is...

Prabhupada: Everything.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Take credit as much as you deserve.

Satsvarupa: The history of civilization in the West is that for centuries people believed whatever the Bible said about existence, and then, when science developed, the Bible did not appear very wise anymore, so they... They overthrew all the dogmatic teachings.

Prabhupada: They are dogmatic teachings.

Satsvarupa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.

Prabhupada: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.

Satsvarupa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible. Then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien... So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.

Prabhupada: That is not our point. We want to understand God through philosophy. "Through philosophy" means logic. Blind faith is not our business. [break] "...such date I have posted. You have got the literature. If you permit me, then I can show some of the books." Then our local representatives advise, "You go and see this gentleman." In this way contact him and leave some book with him, that "You first of all see. Then decide." Very honest business.

Satsvarupa: Gargamuni suggests that I start with Indians. There are Indians all over the world. (end)