Prabhupada: So Jayapataka Maharaja, explain. You have got practical experience.

Jayapataka: Bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma jara. Those people who are born on the sacred land of Bharatavarsa, they should perfect their life, janma sarthaka kari', and help others. Purpose of Krsna consciousness is to perfect one's own spiritual knowledge and then to go and help other people. So people that are born here in Bharatavarsa have a special facility because of the Vedic culture, Aryan culture, to perfect their lives. And just as Srila Prabhupada has gone all over the world spreading the Krsna consciousnessone person from this Bharatavarsa has been able to do so muchif other pure devotees would come and preach as Srila Prabhupada has done, then how many unlimited amount of fallen souls could receive the benefit of Krsna consciousness. [break]

Prabhupada: ...in so-called transcendental meditation, go to the Himalaya and go to the forest. We are not interested in all this nonsense. Our only business is to spread Bhagavad-gita As It Is, door to door, town to town, city to city. We are not going to seclusion. Prahlada Maharaja said, "This is professional bluff: 'I am going to the Himalaya. I am going to the forest.' " Prahlada Maharaja condemns that "These are professional bluffs." Or they may be sincere, but still, they are trying for their own salvation. Prahlada Maharaja said, "I am not interested in that sal... I am interested for everyone's salvation. Everyone must go back to home, back to..." That is Vaisnava, not that "For my own salvation I go to Himalaya or in the forest and transcendental meditation, nonsense..." We are not interested in those things. (laughs) And our men... Just like that Gaurasundara. He is doing all nonsense, transcendental meditation. Is it not?

Sudama: Yes.

Prabhupada: Rascal. He is doing transcendental meditation. He got so much opportunity to spread Krsna consciousness. He did it in the beginning very nicely. A rascal, he became victim. These things are for ajitendriyanam. Those who are not able to control the senses, they make this business, transcendental meditation, and secretly doing all nonsense. The whole thing, this transcendental meditation, that, what is that, Maharishi Yogi, they are doing all nonsense and advertising, "We are transcendental meditation."

Hari-sauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."

Prabhupada: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlada Maharaja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duhkha-duhkham. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah [SB 7.9.45]. They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha trpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.

Jayapataka: It seems that as a country, India's got the best chances for becoming fully Krsna conscious again.

Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere chance. Krsna does not say for India.

Jayapataka: But first.

Prabhupada: No. That is not... You are making better progress, Western countries. Krsna is not limited anywhere. But in India they have got the facilities. But they are becoming rascals, so they are not taking the facility. The facility is there. That is everywhere, especially in India. You see everywhere, every day, the sunrise, so beautiful. In Western country, some places, sometimes. But here you'll find every day. That is the facility. This is Gayatri mantra. Om bhur bhuvah svah tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. This facility is in here. You get sufficient sunlight, and in sunlight you keep very healthy and happy. That facility is here.

Bhavananda: Also, Srila Prabhupada, last night you were saying, "The sun is moving." We can see the sun has just come up and is moving across the sky. So what do they base their statement that the sun is stationary? They have no basis in fact.

Prabhupada: Therefore rascals. They see one thing and speak another. That is rascal. Yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam raja samasta... Huh? Yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah. Asesa-tejah. The... asesa-tejah, unlimited temperature and light. They are studied. This is asesa-tejah. If they have studied the quality of the sun, how they can say something wrong about the movements? That is also right. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami. This is statement. Bhramati. It is never discussed, sthira. Fixed up means sthira. Bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. And that is also... That movement is also within the time limit fixed up by Krsna: "Morning, half past six, you get up." "Yes." You cannot stop it. Krsna's ajna. It is order of Krsna. You stop it, you scientists. You make it conveniently. Not half past six, make it eight. Can you do this? You rascal, you are claiming scientist. Yasyajnaya. It is only by His order you can... You ask him to rise from this side. Why from this side? Is there any scientist can change? Then why they are claiming that there is no God? Huh? What is the answer? Hm? Yasyajnaya. There is some arrangement. What is their answer? Hm? Jagadisa Prabhu? What is the answer?

Jagadisa: There is no... We don't see how God is working. We don't see...

Prabhupada: Are you blind? God is working. Yasyajnaya bhramati. Yasya, by His order he is rising. Why don't you see God? It is not your order or your scientist order. Somebody's order. That is God.

Jagadisa: But there doesn't seem to be any meaning. There doesn't seem to be any meaning.

Prabhupada: What is the meaning?

Jagadisa: There is no meaning.

Prabhupada: What is the meaning?

Jagadisa: It's just evolution. There's no meaning. What's the meaning?

Prabhupada: I do not follow what is the meaning. The sun is rising half past six, exactly at the time. So there is no meaning?

Jagadisa: We can't tell what the meaning is.

Prabhupada: That is... Because you are rascal, you do not know. You learn it. One who knows the meaning. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You are fool, rascal. How can you know the meaning? You must have to go to the real person.

Jagadisa: Who knows?

Prabhupada: Guru. Therefore we go to guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who is actually serious about inquiring, he must go. Gurum prapadyeta. Must surrender to guru.

Sastriji: Sabde pare ca nisnatam.

Prabhupada: Ah. That is... Therefore there is guru. Adau gurvasrayam. If you know, want to know, first of all take shelter of guru. That is the injunction.

Bhavananda: Then we will ask, how do we know who is really guru?

Prabhupada: That is another rascaldom. You see how others are taking guru, parampara system. You are rascal. You will place so many questions. But the answers are already there. Evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Guru is he who knows Krsna, who explains Krsna. That is guru. Otherwise he's not guru.

Dayananda: Samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12].

Prabhupada: Ah. Anyone who is Krsna conscious, who knows Krsna, he is guru. Otherwise all rascals. Why should you go to a rascal? Immediately you can understand he is guru who has fully surrendered to Krsna. He is guru. Others? They are all rascals. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Who has not surrendered to Krsna, he is under these four groups: duskrtina, mudha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana. They may talk of so much knowledge, but they are rascal fools because they have not surrendered to Krsna. All the Mayavadis, they are all rascals. They have not surrendered. This is the test. Why don't you take lesson from Bhagavad-gita? He is guru. One who has surrendered to Krsna, one is servant of Krsna, he is guru. That is the test. If you want to select a guru, you have to see "Whether this person is fully surrendered to Krsna?" Then he is guru. Huh? What is the definition of guru given by...? Why don't you read all these things? Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara ajnaya guru hana. You become a guru. How? Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru. And you say, "I do not know who is guru." Why? Hm? What is the answer? Guru is defined by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We are chanting daily, sri krsna caitanya prabhu nityananda sri advaita gadadhara sri... Take their lesson. Otherwise why you are praying, sri krsna caitanya prabhu nityananda? You, rather, glorify Hitler or Mussolini. Make them guru. Everything is there. You cannot say that "I do not understand." Do not understand means you do not take. What is the...? All right? (laughter)

Bhavananda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gita, but there are so many versions of Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Bhavananda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gita, but there are so many versions.

Prabhupada: If you can learn one, then your life will be successful for many thousand years. Hm? Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. You simply understand one verse of Bhagavad-gita; then you understand everything. This is the meaning. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. (Bengali)

Sudama: I remember once you said, Srila Prabhupada, that it took Arjuna less than forty-five minutes. He understood. But for us it is taking, for materialistic men...

Prabhupada: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mudhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Krsna consciousness.

Sudama: [break] ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."

Prabhupada: But why? Because they have no eyes. Has Satya Sai Baba so many properties all over the world? He is creating gold but has he got so many properties? One property like this? Huh? I started this business with forty rupees; now it is forty crores. Has this rascal has any property like this? (laughter)

Jayapataka: He is producing ashes. (laughter)

Bhavananda: Just like Yogi Bhajan came, remember Srila Prabhupada, in Berkeley, and he said, "I am simply here to try and understand how you are doing so greatly, how you are opening so many temples." He said, "I have simply come to try and understand that point, to learn your secret."

Tamala Krsna: But his idea is that he will then sit and enjoy all of those things.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Nowadays all these yogis and swamis are going. Even that blind saintly person...

Hari-sauri: Gange...

Prabhupada: Gangesvarananda. He also went. But coming back, he is disappointed. Nobody took care of him. Although in India he is known as a great saintly person. They have no asset. They have no Krsna; therefore they are beggars. Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. If one gets Krsna, then he gets everything.

Sudama: Therefore we pray, "visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale, srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine."

Prabhupada: Not visnu-padaya. Visnu-padaya. (pronounces with long "a") The Prabhupada and Visnupada, the same thing. Visnu is prabhu. Prabhavisnave namah. They say like that? Who says that?

Sudama: Oh, that, how they are trying to understand your powers? Oh, yes, in one college I was lecturing in Kansas. Some students came to me, and they said, "We are amazed." They were disciples of this one bogus yogi. I cannot remember his name. And they were asking me, "How your swami, how your guru has got some power, we are trying to understand."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Sudama: I told them, "Yes, even we may be unwilling, still, we are forced to serve Krsna by his grace and mercy."

Prabhupada: And even the students are asking. That means it has become widespread, if the small boys are asking. They are also studying. So why did you not say, "You are asking why he has become so famous, and still, you do not say more than other yogis? You are asking this question, 'How he has become?' That means he has already become more than. So why you are asking this question?"

Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, I think you are the only real resident of Bharatavarsa.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Bhavananda: You are the only real resident of Bharatavarsa. No one else has fulfilled that...

Prabhupada: At least historically it be proved. [break] ...cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupada liked me very much, because I am grhastha, I was known as paca-grhastha. Paca-grhastha means a rotten grhastha. And now they say, "This grhastha has come out more than us? What is this?" [break] Sridhara Maharaja's chief disciple...?

Bhavananda: Gaura.

Prabhupada: He always used to say to Sridhara Maharaja that "You are seeing Abhay Babu as grhastha, but he is more than many yogis." He was telling.

Tamala Krsna: Even before.

Prabhupada: When I was grhastha they were my tenant. So, and he used to say. And then...

Tamala Krsna: He knew. He saw you in your activities.

Prabhupada: Yes, he said that "Maharaja, you are seeing he is grhastha. He is more than many yogis." He used to say, that boy.

Tamala Krsna: He has good sentiment, then.

Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. It doesn't matter whether one is grhastha or a sannyasi. (Bengali) [break]...all big, big men, he was present. [break]

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, another twenty thousand dollars was transferred. [break]

Prabhupada: He cannot complain. There is money; there is men; now you have to complete. You cannot say, "For this purpose, it..." No. [break] ...Madhava Maharaja, you can say that "Have you seen ever twenty thousand at a time?" And I am bringing daily twenty thousand. Twenty thousand dollars. Not money..., rupees, but dollars. "Have you seen twenty thousand dollars at a time?" [break] Detroit temple, you know? Jagadisa? Are you going to negotiate.

Jagadisa: Where is this?

Prabhupada: Detroit, the temple.

Jagadisa: Oh, yes, Detroit temple, yes.

Prabhupada: And he was asking 350,000. So I told, "All right, you take cash, 300,000," and he immediately accepted, though I had not three paisa even in the bank. So immediately... The girl has paid?

Jagadisa: Yes.

Prabhupada: She agreed to pay half and our Ambarisa agreed to pay half. It was purchased immediately.

Tamala Krsna: Cash. And you only had three paisa. That means one who is servant of the richest, he also becomes rich. You always said, "Serving the greatest, you become great."

Prabhupada: Yes. A big man's son squanders money and the father pays. Similarly, if you become a pure devotee of Krsna, the father will spend for you. Why do you care wherefrom money comes?

Bhavananda: Just like, Srila Prabhupada, you had Dai Nippon print fifty thousand dollars in books in the beginning.

Prabhupada: (chuckles) Yes. Yes. I gave him five thousand and I ordered him fifty-two thousand. And I told him, "The money will come." And he said that "Five thousand he is giving advance. Money will come." So they immediately published Krsna book, forty thousand dollar worth.

Sudama: And they told me, Srila Prabhupada, later, that that was the first time in the history of their company that they would ever make any such concession.

Prabhupada: They told?

Sudama: Yes. Mr. Ogata and Mr. Kugimoto said, "Somehow by his... He is such a great man, His Divine Grace, somehow we accepted." They were surprised. Remember when he went?

Tamala Krsna: They were mystified by you, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: When I was coming back from America at that time, I came via Japan for this purpose. At that time you were in charge.

Tamala Krsna: Your dealings with them were very memorable.

Prabhupada: They said, "How we agreed?" (laughs) They were surprised.

Sudama: And whenever I would see the president... That one meeting you had with him... Whenever I would see the president after that, he would always ask me, "How is His Divine Grace? How is he feeling and where is he?"

Prabhupada: I challenged him, "You are Buddhist." "Yes." "You are eating meat?" "Yes." "What is this?" (laughs) That was my first talking with him.

Sudama: They were wanting to talk business for a long time. You were simply preaching to them.

Prabhupada: Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu went to the Kazi. His first question was that "What kind of religion you are following? You are killing your father and mother?" This was His beginning of the talk. "What kind of religion it is?" "How is that? I am killing my father, mother?" "Yes, cow is your mother and bull is your father. You are killing them. The bull is giving you grains by working in the field, and the mother is giving you milk, and you are killing them." This was his first question. So this is a civilization of killing father and mother. All over the world they are killing bulls and cows. In England there is law that you can maintain a cow but you cannot maintain a bull. It must be killed. Yes. When I was a guest in John Lennon's house the manager in charge, he was telling me. "You cannot keep bull. This is our law." I learned from him.

Hari-sauri: Only for breeding purposes. Only for breeding. All the rest are killed.

Prabhupada: This is law in England? So you cannot keep even bull privately. Must be killed. This is the law.

Tamala Krsna: What is the reason for that law?

Prabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law.

Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.

Prabhupada: No.

Hari-sauri: They are useless animals.

Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize bullsfor transportation, for plowing and so many other things.

Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with a bull.

Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will eat, he will give you fuel.

Tamala Krsna: In return.

Prabhupada: In return.

Jayapataka: But now the government is trying to teach the people that they should buy tractors and kill the calves.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Jayapataka: They want to have..., make tractors popular and then...

Prabhupada: Kill the bulls. They were criticizing us because in our gosala we maintain the male calves.

Prabhupada: No, when our Harikesa was struck by a bull and he was taken in the hospital, the doctor was criticizing, "If you have killed the bulls, then this condition would not have come to you."

Tamala Krsna: Wow. Karma.

Prabhupada: No. There will be no accident because this..., the acci...You know that?

Tamala Krsna: I heard about the accident.

Prabhupada: There was some accident, and he was taken to hospital. So he was advised, "Because you do not kill the bulls, therefore this is the accident." As if without killing..., by killing the bulls there is no accident. And they do not cite the accident by motorcar, greater bulls. Accident will be there.

Jayapataka: Yesterday we planted paddy, paddy field.

Prabhupada: Oh. That's nice. But this is going to be a lawn?

Jayapataka: Yes. It will have flower bushes and tulasi around after the construction. The botanical director suggested that on the one end we make a little arbor type covering of vine that Your Divine Grace could sit there and give lecture from there.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayapataka: And the devotees could sit on the lawn.

Prabhupada: Yes, very nice. Mr. Agarwal said?

Jayapataka: Not Mr. Agarwal. Mr. Mitra, the deputy director of the botanical gardens.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Jayapataka: He came out here and gave one design. From Howrah Botanical Garden?

Prabhupada: Oh. He is the in-charge? Superintendent.

Jayapataka: Yes. He came with his wife and family. They were very pleased. He stayed for a day or so and then made a whole plan for us.

Prabhupada: [break] Sun is movingthat uttarayanam and daksinayanam. This ayanam means gamanam. Is it not?

Jayapataka: Northern and southern course.

Devotee (1): In Bhagavad-gita there is mention, when yogis...

Prabhupada: Everywhere it is ment...

Sastriji: Agnir jyotir ahah suklah san-masa uttarayanam.

Prabhupada: That is in the Bhagavad-gita. [break] ...line there will be pillars? No.

Tamala Krsna: Arches. Just like on your veranda.

Prabhupada: Oh, arches.

Tamala Krsna: Exact same pattern. It will keep the same pattern.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Sudama: But on this one time should we bathe directly?

Prabhupada: No, you can bathe salagrama.

Sudama: Bathe salagrama.

Prabhupada: Bathe the salagrama-sila.

Sudama: Place Him... Place the Deity there and salagrama in front of Them and then bathe salagrama.

Prabhupada: [break] ...made so gigantic and so opulent. And we make Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gate? How foolish they are. The doorkeeper?

Jayapataka: I challenged them that "Why you are putting Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gateway?" So they say, "Well, this was in memory because when..." They say when Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a magistrate that he used to go there and he used to watch the local people do their..., do some sports and horse-racing and things, and so as memory they are making there.

Prabhupada: So you are so intelligent, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was not so intelligent that he could place him. But you are so very intelligent, you are surpassing Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. So you are intelligent or fool? You should answer like this.

Tamala Krsna: Jumping over guru.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Monkey's business.

Prabhupada: He could not understand where Bhaktivinoda Thakura should be placed. You have understood. You are so intelligent, overintelligent. That means rascals. Overintelligent means rascal. Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura, he remained so many years and he could not understand. You have understood to make Bhaktivinoda Thakura a gatekeeper. You tell him next time when you..., that "You are overintelligent." [break] ...statue of..., picture, I think, of Bhakti... That Sakhi Babu.

Tamala Krsna: Which babu?

Prabhupada: Sakhi Babu.

Jayapataka: Yes, Sakhi Babu, he is there.

Bhavananda: Opposite.

Prabhupada: So that means he is on the same level. [break] ...Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gate is the proof how fool he is. He has not shown respect to Bhaktivinoda Thakura; he has disgraced.

Jayapataka: Now the government is saying that they have to knock down those temples because of the encroaching on the roadside.

Prabhupada: Now where Bhaktivinoda Thakura...?

Tamala Krsna: Will go now? What was... What was your guru maharaja's plan for where he...? I don't understand. I mean, did your guru maharaja want a...

Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura's statue was there.

Tamala Krsna: So why was...

Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda... Because it was their... My guru maharaja never tried to bring him here.

Tamala Krsna: So what happened?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Tamala Krsna: So they did it?

Prabhupada: No. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's picture was there, not that on the gateway.

Bhavananda: In the back.

Prabhupada: They should have taken away that building which was constructed, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and placed him there as separate temple. You see? That red... That was constructed by Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

Tamala Krsna: You mean that school building?

Bhavananda: No, no, in the back.

Prabhupada: Just on the side of the temple.

Tamala Krsna: Old building.

Prabhupada: Yes. If they wanted to show some respect they should have installed him there.

Tamala Krsna: Just next to the temple. Your guru maharaja did not build because there was something already in Svarupa Ganja.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: So why don't they be satisfied...?

Prabhupada: No, they are bigger than Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati.

Tamala Krsna: It's not their position.

Prabhupada: Overintelligent.

Tamala Krsna: I remember one time Karttikeya Maharaja was chanting to a picture of Bhaktisiddhanta. You chastised him and said, "What is your connection with Bhaktisiddhanta? Your connection is with me."

Prabhupada: Who said?

Tamala Krsna: You did.

Sudama: You did. I remember.

Tamala Krsna: When Karttikeya Maharaja was chanting to your guru maharaja's picture, you said, "How you can connect with him? Your connection is with me." (end)