Prabhupada: No, no. Any place where there is no sunshine, that is condemned.

Brahmananda: In your Srimad-Bhagavatam, you write that the sun purifies a dirty place and also the mind.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: But we don't rely on the sun for purifying our mind.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Brahmananda: As devotees, we don't rely on the sun...

Prabhupada: We have the Krsna sun.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: What is this, sun? No.

Srutakirti: Spinnery.

Prabhupada: Spinnery. [break] There is no sunshine. It is wet always, just see? Trees also, they have moss.

Brahmananda: In India the sun is very intense.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Brahmananda: Does that have something to do that Krsna appeared there?

Prabhupada: Punya-bhumi, pious land. Still, so fallen, whenever there is a question of spiritual meeting, thousands, lakhs, will come. You have seen Kumbha-mela?

Brahmananda: No.

Prabhupada: You have seen?

Srutakirti: No.

Pusta Krsna: I've seen pictures.

Prabhupada: Very poor men, still, they gather, sixty lakhs, without any advertisement.

Brahmananda: Here you have to advertise to get six hundred.

Pusta Krsna: Or six.

Prabhupada: And it was so nice to live there, spiritual atmosphere, on the bank of the Ganges and Yamuna. Immediately you go, you become spiritualized. Vrndavana is also like that. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, bharata-bhumite janma haila, manusya-janma haila. To get the human form of life born in India, that is a special prerogative. Bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. He is fifty percent-prepared by birth.

Brahmananda: Just by birth.

Prabhupada: Yes. And then, by culture, another fifty percent. But they have given up this culture. But the birthright fifty percent is already also there. Prayaga, severest cold, eh, I took bath in the Ganges. It is simply cutting. But still, they are taking bath and smearing over the body the ashes and sit down, chanting Hare Krsna. No care "Wherefrom food will come? Where...?" No. That's in India still. [break] ...it is also like this, cloudy?

Bhagavan: Just a few months out of the year, January, February.

Prabhupada: Otherwise how we have gone there? (laughter) Africa was part of India.

Brahmananda: The land was together?

Prabhupada: No, there...

Indian man: Geological information it was. It was together. And Australia was fitting in the Bay of Bengal. This is the theory. I learned from my lecturer, Dr. Willinghurst. He told me in my class.

Prabhupada: Because from Bhagavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they are still thief. (laughter) They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. (Dog barking) "Best friend."

Brahmananda: Maharaja Prthu also came from the body of King Vena.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.

Prabhupada: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bharatavarsa, this planet, nine varsas: Bharata-varsa, Ketumala-varsa, Ilavrta-varsa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. [break]

Pusta Krsna: ...ages, Srila Prabhupada, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?

Prabhupada: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.

Pusta Krsna: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?

Prabhupada: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.

Brahmananda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?

Prabhupada: No, pure.

Brahmananda: It is pure.

Prabhupada: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati laksa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Krsna's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Krsna is the richest. Aisvaryasya samagrasya.

Devotee (1): Were all the races originated in India?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee (1): The races were originated in India, all the races, the different races that there are now?

Prabhupada: India what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.

Devotee (1): So all the different kinds of human beings actually were originated there?

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...men, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. First, second, third. Then fourth is the sudras. And the fifth, candalas: no Vedic culture. They are candalas. So the Europeans, they were ksatriyas originally. On account of Parasurama's massacre process, they fled from India to European side. And Greece and Rome, they were givenI think, Turkey alsogiven to two sons of Maharaja Yayati. They refused the order of the father. The father was very licentious. So he begged from two sons that "You give me your youth." They refused. So therefore they were banished in this part of the world.

Pusta Krsna: Into England.

Prabhupada: Not England. Greece, Rome, Turkey. Next to India, they were civilized. So European race mostly come from that part. Caucasian. Kasyapa Muni. Central India. Er, central... What is called? Asia, Asia.

Brahmananda: Why it took Parasurama twenty-one times to defeat?

Prabhupada: They were not properly doing their duties. So Parasurama said, "I will kill all of them." Formerly ksatriyas were guided by the brahmanas, even Maharaja Yudhisthira, all the rules and regulations. But the brahmanas were the legislative assembly. And ksatriyas were the executive, and the vaisyas, productive, and sudras worker. At the present moment there is no director, neither executive. Some of them are only productive, and some of them are worker, most of them. Therefore it is said, kalau sudrah-sambhavah. In the Kali-yuga, mostly all the people are sudras. Because they are workers. [break] Everyone can be purified, even the candalas. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah [SB 2.4.18]. Yavanah khasadayah. Yavanas means these European groups, and khasadayah, Mongolian group: China, Japan. So Japanese were there in Vedic age also. Kalayavana. Kalayavana fought with Krsna.

Pusta Krsna: Hare Krsna. (devotees laughing)

Prabhupada: What is that?

Brahmananda: He was recording like this.

Pusta Krsna: No, just the last few minutes. (laughter) I was listening though, Srila Prabhupada.

Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, will the Krsna consciousness movement will take over the world eventually?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee (1): Is going to take over the world eventually some time during the Kali-yuga, in this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupada: No, that is not possible, because only the fortunate persons will take.

Devotee (1): I mean, but will the power of the ksatriyas will be in the hands of the Krsna conscious persons sometime during this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupada: Provided you become very expert to preach. Unless you preach, how they will take? [break]

Pusta Krsna: Towards the end of the Kali-yuga isn't there a description in the Bhagavatam that one will not be able to see the sun or the moon?

Prabhupada: During the end of Kali-yuga?

Pusta Krsna: Yes. Because of the impiety. So there will be no vegetation. Is that description in Srimad-Bhagavatam?

Prabhupada: I don't think. [break] ...it is stated?

Pusta Krsna: Well, I had heardof course, I'm not certain of the sourcethat because of impiety the sun and the moon, people would not be able to see. So there would be no vegetation. And without vegetation, even animals cannot live. So eventually they would take to eating their own children. Is this what takes place?

Prabhupada: Yes, there will be no foodstuff at the end of... That is stated. No milk, no food grains, no fruits, no whatever. Especially food grains.

Devotee (2): There will be some devotees left at the end of Kali-yuga?

Prabhupada: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... [break] (loud noise of car screeching.) ...are not very neat and clean. (chuckles) Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.

Brahmananda: Not in proper repair.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: We had an engagement last night at a technical school after your lecture, and inside the entrance of the technical school in a big glass case they had a big engine from a car, when you walk into the technical school. Mostly Indians, young boys.

Prabhupada: Oh, foreigners.

Pusta Krsna: Yes. [break] So they were very disrespectful actually. But when we started kirtana, the whole atmosphere changed. Do you think that the young Indian boys in the future, they will become anywhere near as pious as their parents?

Prabhupada: Why do you take India? We are talking of the whole world. There is no question of India, Europe, America. [break]

Brahmananda: ...Srimad-Bhagavatam about the kiratas and so on. That means we can go to any community in the world...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Brahmananda: ...and preach, and some will join.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is actually happening.

Devotee (1): Prabhupada, has there been an incarnation of Krsna outside India, somewhere else in another part of the world? Or does He always comes in India?

Prabhupada: Yes. Saktyavesa avatara, somebody empowered by Him, not Krsna Himself. Just like Christ. Christ is also empowered incarnation. Saktyavesa avatara. Mohammed is also. Anyone who is preaching about God is empowered incarnation. Krsna-sakti vina nahi krsna nama-pracara. That is there in the Caitanya-caritamrta. [break]

Devotee (2): ...that your initiated disciples had some relationship with Lord Caitanya when He was on this earth?

Prabhupada: Everyone has relationship, all living entities.

Brahmananda: He is Visvambhara, means the maintainer of all living entities.

Prabhupada: Yes. Prince of Wales. Prince of Wales, I think this, I think he is dead now. King Edward, I mean to say, George's elder brother? No, not George's. George VI. Is there an elder brother? Edward? When he was Prince of Wales he was actually to be the emperor, or King of England. But he married one common girl, and therefore he was refused. So he, as Prince of Wales, he went to India. And when he saw the bright sunshine, he was surprised. (laughter) Yes.

Brahmananda: He had never seen.

Prabhupada: He, or before him, another prince. Because that Prince of... We were at that time children. So I think King George V, when he was Prince of Wales.

Brahmananda: Oh, when he came to Calcutta?

Prabhupada: Yes. I have seen. We were school children at that time. So on the two sides of the road, our first place was, the king, queen passed, we saw. We were given a flag. (laughter) "Jaya Raja, Rajesvara." We were... And very good tiffin was supplied. Two samosa, two kachori, two sandesa, and one big tangerine. Twice I saw. Once when he entered Calcutta, and again, one day, when there was a parade of military... military parade. So both days we were invited, and we saw the king. [break]

Brahmananda: ...Calcutta, on the Maidan, there's that big building, that big memorial. Is that...

Prabhupada: Oh, Victoria Memorial.

Brahmananda: That was built for, the king when he was coming?

Prabhupada: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.

Brahmananda: So you must have been very brave.

Prabhupada: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Krsna consciousness? I am still brave.

Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada!

Prabhupada: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. [break] ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?

Brahmananda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: And we have come out victorious.

Brahmananda: Yes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered.

Brahmananda: The governor of Maharastra.

Prabhupada: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. [break]

Brahmananda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Brahmananda: We have the impression, because we are taught from the very beginning in the schools, that the leaders are to be worshiped, that their birthdays are to be celebrated...

Prabhupada: Where you are going?

Srutakirti: He's going to pick up that lawyer.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Brahmananda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.

Prabhupada: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhih. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rajanya dasyu-dharmabhih. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhaksayisyanti praja sarve rajanya dasyu-dharmabhih. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the sudras, they are now powerful. Sudras. Industry means sudra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Krsna conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Krsna conscious.

Prabhupada: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmananda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupada: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Krsna conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Krsna conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)