Prabhupada: Now, the Krsna says that bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano, bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. So it has emanated from Krsna. Yato va imani bhutani jayante. This is the statement of the Vedas and... So how would you explain that a person can produce such huge quantity of material things, at least to make them understand how it is produced from the person? These are to be scientifically explained, wherefrom so much vast mass of water came. That you have to explain scientifically. Otherwise how they will accept? Simply by saying, It has come from Krsna," they will not accept.

Guest (1) Indian man: Yes. We have to convince them about the method of approach.

Prabhupada: Yes. If these boys, in their scientific language, they try to convince, that will be more effective. We are generally speaking that "Water has come from Krsna," or "The earth has come from Krsna." That may be blind. But if it is scientifically presented, how it has come from Krsna, then they cannot refute so easily. So that I am engaging this doctor of chemistry, Svarupa Damodara and Raya Ramananda. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's two personal associates, Svarupa Damodara and Ramananda.

Guest (1): Yes, and Raya Ramananda. Very, very strange coincidence.

Prabhupada: What is that verse? Idam hi pumsas srutasya va... You find out this verse. You have to find out the... No, no, from here. You have to take the index. Where is Pandita? Pandita is not here?

Guest (1): Pradyumnaji. Pradyumna. You call him pandita?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): Rightly so.

Prabhupada: He is American pandita. Panditji?

Srutakirti: He is out.

Prabhupada: Oh, he's out.

Guest (1):. He came to me today, asked for a copy of Harinamamrta-vyakarana, which we have...

Prabhupada: Hm. You find out the verse: idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va.

Guest (1): We have to attend a Bhagavata-patha, at 3.30.

Prabhupada: Where?

Guest (1): Radha-Damodara.

Prabhupada: Accha. So who is reading?

Guest (1): Nrsimhananda Goswami.

Prabhupada: Accha. This verse is very important verse.

Guest (1): Very important.

Prabhupada: Huh. Idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va. Idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh [SB 1.5.22].

Gurudasa: That volume is packed, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: All right. Namany anantasya yaso 'nkitani yad avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupitah. Nirupita means it is already decided. The perfection of your education is this. What is that? Namany anantasya. Anantasya. Yasah ankitani. Yasah. That is perfection. If you scientific knowledge, philosophical knowledge; cannot establish the glories of the Supreme Lord.

Guest (1): Then they are useless.

Prabhupada: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupitah. It is already taken. Nirupita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.

Guest (1): Your business is not to prove or disprove, but to glorify Him.

Prabhupada: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupada: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say, "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupada: That is good.

Guest (1): Yes. "We do not know. We know thus far and not beyond." So that's a great achievement. That's a great achievement.

Prabhupada: No. At least, they should not teach because they do not know.

Guest (1): Well, the topmost scientists are much saner now. They don't make...

Prabhupada: Yes. But the best thing will be, they may not talk all nonsense.

Guest (1): They don't talk nonsense.

Prabhupada: If they admit they do not know, why do they speak so much?

Guest (1): One scientist has said about matter. He says, "Matter is I know not what." This is his definition of matter. "Matter is I know not what." So no more dogmatism. No more dogmatism.

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Jaya. Hare Krsna.

Guest (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Guest (1): I suppose you will come now when this thing is constructed.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): We shall try to construct it...

Prabhupada: Quickly.

Guest (1): Let us expedite this so that Prabhupada may come again very soon. (Hindi conversation) (end)