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730912iv.lon
Interviews with
Macmillan and various English Reporters September 12, 1973, London Prabhupada: I have no spoon.
Hamsaduta: Someone's bringing it. Mukunda's bringing it.
Prabhupada: Get it. Give me little water.
Revatinandana: Pardon me?
Prabhupada: Water.
Revatinandana: What? Water.
Prabhupada: Yes, come here.
Reporter (1): I wonder if I could ask you first of all to tell me what is the central point of the teaching of Bhagavad-gita?
Prabhupada: Central point is to understand God. People have become so foolish. They have forgotten to know about God, know about himself, what he is. Everyone is under the impression that "I am this body," which he's not. He's spirit soul. They're so much in ignorance, and there is no education. Even big, big professors. Prof. Kotofsky, in Russia, he told me, "Swamiji, after this body's finished, everything is finished." That is not the fact.
Reporter (1): Can you tell me who is Lord Krsna?
Prabhupada: Well, Krsna is God, the Supreme Personality of God.
Reporter (1): And what will it profit us if we get to know about Him?
Prabhupada: The profit means you'll be saved from the material existence. Material existence means repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease.
Reporter (1): How does He speak?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Reporter (1): How does He speak to you or to us?
Prabhupada: He was present five thousand years ago. He came on this planet and gave instruction, Bhagavad-gita. So that is recorded.
Reporter (1): Why have you written Bhagavad-gita as it really is? Why?
Prabhupada: As it is, because there are many foolish rascals, they interpret unnecessarily. Just like Kuruksetra. Kuruksetra is a place in India, still existing. So in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah [Bg. 1.1]. The meaning is clear, that "Kuruksetra is a religious place and there, the Pandavas and the Kurus, they assembled together for fighting." But many so-called leaders, political leaders, scholars, they have interpreted, "Kuruksetra means the body."
Reporter (1): Can you tell me the chant? Will you recite the chant to me? And then tell me why it's used so often by the followers?
Prabhupada: Which one?
Reporter (1): The Krishna chant.
Prabhupada: Yes.
This, this is transcendental sound vibration. If you chant, then the foolish ignorance will gradually dissipate. You'll come to real knowledge. You'll be purified. In India still, there are many snake charmers. They, simply by mantra, they can get out the poison. Materially, if it is possible, how much it is possible in spiritual?
Reporter (1): Can you tell me...? There's been an awful lot in these last two years said about the Jesus Movement. How does that sort of line up with Krsna?
Prabhupada: I do not know what is Jesus Movement. If you can explain, then I can speak. What is that Jesus Movement, I do not know.
Reporter (1): Well, do you know very much about Jesus?
Prabhupada: Jesus, I know.
Reporter (1): Tell me about him.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Jesus, the son of God, he's representative of God. So we have got all respect and honor for him. We worship him. But I do not know what is about Jesus Movement.
Reporter (1): Tell me a little bit about Krsna consciousness, will you?
Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness means the same, Bhagavad-gita as it is, which was spoken five thousand years ago by Lord Krsna Himself, we are preaching the same Bhagavad-gita. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna is accepted, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we are preaching that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna."
Reporter (1): Is Krsna consciousness genuine?
Prabhupada: Then we are simply wasting our time, do you think? By preaching Krsna consciousness, do you think we are wasting our time? We are so fools? Why do you ask this nonsense question, "genuine"? Unless it is genuine, why we are working so hard?
Reporter (1): Why is it so popular among young people?
Prabhupada: Because they have got knowledge. Young people are receptive. Young people, education is given during youth time, not in old age. Old men cannot take any education. Whatever he has learned, he'll take another period of fifty years to forget that. Therefore sometimes it is called "old fools." But young men, they are receptive, they have got brain. When they understand that "Here is something," they understand.
Reporter (1): Many thanks. I'm very grateful... [break]
Prabhupada: Thank you.
Hamsaduta: Haribol. [break] This gentleman's from the Sunday Mirror.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Hamsaduta: His newspaper, is that right?
Reporter (2): That's right. Ah...
Prabhupada: Oh, Sunday Mirror, they published, some, something about us...
Hamsaduta: I think you published something about us a few weeks ago, about the manor out at Letchmore Heath.
Reporter (2): That's right. Yes. With a lot of pictures. Were you there at the time?
Hamsaduta: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Reporter (2): You were there at the time?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (2): How've you... Where have you been since then?
Prabhupada: No, I went to Sweden. I have come yesterday from Sweden. I was in Sweden.
Reporter (2): Yes, since then? And now your back again for the book.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now I have come again back to..., yesterday, and again I am going back to India.
Reporter (2): How long are you going to stay there?
Prabhupada: In Sweden?
Reporter (2): In India, when you go?
Prabhupada: Oh, in India, I shall stay about one week. Then I shall go to Japan.
Reporter (2): Do you find, uh, you must find it very, very difficult travelling all the time.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (2): What don't you like about it?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hamsaduta: What don't you like about travelling?
Prabhupada: No, I like.
Reporter (2): Oh, you like it. Do you always go...?
Prabhupada: Yes, but because I am old man, it is little troublesome for me. Otherwise, I like travelling.
Reporter (2): What, what were you doing, what did you do before this, before 1966?
Prabhupada: I was retired from my family life. I was living in a holy place called Vrndavana. I retired from my family life in 1954. Then, in 1959, I took sannyasa order. This is called renounced order of life. No family connection .
Reporter (2): Yeah.
Prabhupada: And then I started for American in 1965. And then my movement was started from U.S.A in 1966.
Reporter (2): From the U.S.A. Could you tell me why you think the Western world has espoused your sort of movement now, has been keen on looking to the East for spiritual...
Prabhupada: Do they, actually?
Reporter (2): Why is that, do you think?
Prabhupada: That he can explain. He's Western people.
Reporter (2): But I mean, how about in your view?
Hamsaduta: He wants to hear it from you.
Prabhupada: They are getting some substance. You see. Just like here is a sweetmeat. If you have never tasted a sweetmeat before and if you are supplied a nice sweetmeat, naturally you appreciate and take it.
Reporter (2): But why, why 1966? I mean what was there, what was there, special about the Sixties?
Prabhupada: And before that, this thing was not administered.
Reporter (2): I mean the mood of the time might have been right then. I mean was there something about that age that made it especially attractive to the young people?
Prabhupada: Young people, even Young boys, they also take. So generally teenagers, they to...Teenagers, they take it very nicely.
Reporter (2): Why was that? I mean what was there, was there something special about the 1960's that made it more likely that people would go for...?
Prabhupada: But before that, this movement was not there in the western countries.
Reporter (2): I know that. But there's got to be a mood of the times before something like this can catch on.
Prabhupada: Well, that, not that time. Any time. This sweetmeat is sweet all the time. It is not that at a particular time it is sweet.
Reporter (2): But people have got to be hungry to eat it.
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes, hungry, everyone is hungry. Because in the Western countries, unless they are hungry for spiritual consciousness, why they are hippies? They are frustrated. They are not going to live like their fathers and forefathers.
Reporter (2): Frustrated?
Prabhupada: Yes. This material civilization, ultimately it will be frustration because... Just like... Try to understand... You are a person. You are covered with this coat and shirt. If I simply take care of your coat and shirt, and if I do not give you something to eat, how long you'll be happy?
Reporter (2): Not very long.
Prabhupada: That's right.
Reporter (2): Do you take this throne with you all the time?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Reporter (2): No. How, how does it come to be here?
Hamsaduta: We have a temple. So we bring it.
Reporter (2): And this is called?
Hamsaduta: This is called a vyasasana.
Reporter (2): And for...
Hamsaduta: The spiritual...
Reporter (2): A person, it's for a person, isn't it?
Hamsaduta: Yes, the spiritual master sits.
Reporter (2): Nobody ever else sits upon that platform.
Prabhupada: No.
Reporter (2): What happens to it when he's not here.
Hamsaduta: Nobody sits on it.
Reporter (2): It's still there, but...?
Hamsaduta: Oh yeah.
Reporter (2): And lastly, a very trivial question. The uniform, the haircut, why is that?
Prabhupada: This shaving?
Reporter (2): Yes, why?
Prabhupada: It is very nice. It makes the head cool, not with big bunch of hair, burden. We feel it burden. When there is bunch of hair, we feel it is an extra burden.
Reporter (2): An extra burden on the mind?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (2): Makes it, weighs heavily on the mind?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes you have to take...
Reporter (2): So that's the reason why? It makes the mind lighter?
Prabhupada: No. Actually if you keep clean yourself, then your mind is also clean.
Reporter (2): But it is... Is it really because hair presses down on the mind? Is that true?
Hamsaduta: It's a burden, troublesome.
Reporter (2): I mean a physical burden.
Hamsaduta: Just like you have to get some, some hair cream and then a comb and a mirror and...
Reporter (2): Well, I don't. I just get up and go like that. But I mean, I mean, I mean...
Hamsaduta: You understand the point.
Reporter (2): Well, I mean. I do and I don't. I mean physically...
Hamsaduta: Very clean, very clean...
Reporter (2): ...physically, it makes the hair, it makes the mind lighter. Is that true?
Hamsaduta: Very clean, cool. Natural, practical.
Reporter (2): No, I know, but I mean, this thing about it actually weighing down on the mind, is that fair to say?
Hamsaduta: No.
Reporter (2): It's not fair to say?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (2): It is fair to say.
Prabhupada: If you keep yourself very clean and light, then your mind will work very nicely.
Reporter (2): Better than if it was being weighed down.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (2): That's fair, isn't it?
Hamsaduta: It's a matter of cleanliness. Not when...
Reporter (2): But he also says it's a matter of weighing down on the mind. That's fair.
Prabhupada: It is a Vedic system. All the brahmanas take clean-shaved. Vedic system. So we are trying to stay in the platform of brahminical culture. Therefore it is one of the essential things.
Reporter (2): I understand that. Thank you very much from me for your help. Thank you. Bye, bye.
Hamsaduta: [break] ...A church. Which church?
Reporter (3): Methodist Church.
Hamsaduta: Methodist Church.
Reporter (3): Which is fairly advanced, really...
Prabhupada: Methodist Church is famous.
Hamsaduta: Methodist Church.
Prabhupada: Yes. I've seen many signboards.
Hamsaduta: Yeah. Do you have some questions?
Reporter (3): Yes, I have. What, what is the real relationship between Krsna consciousness and other religions? Is it that God has many names and...? (Someone comes up, introducing someone)
Prabhupada: (Chuckling:) That's all right. I thank you.
Indian Man: Mr. Bose, representing National Herald.
Hamsaduta: Maybe you can move this...
Prabhupada: Oh, accha. (Bengali) Now, now, Mr. Bose... Let him come first of all. Give him a chair. Mr. Bose, let him come.
Reporter (3): I'll come back later.
Prabhupada: Yes, three minutes. He's old man.
Reporter (3): Yes.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Hamsaduta: Shall I take this away?
Prabhupada: Yes. (Bengali)
Mr. Bose: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: [break] She's waiting? Then I shall come.
Reporter (3): Right, well (indistinct) some publicity.
Prabhupada: No, every religion has got God consciousness. Without God consciousness, there cannot be any religion. But somewhere we find the degrees of consciousness. Just like every living entity has got consciousness. A child has got consciousness, dog has got consciousness, and a human being has got consciousness, but there are degrees.
Reporter (3): Do people lose this consciousness, the God...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Reporter (3): Do people lose God consciousness as they grow older?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, unless a person comes to God consciousness, his consciousness is imperfect.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is a...
Reporter (3): Or is it a...
Prabhupada: ...spiritual process.
Reporter (3): ...continuous flow?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is a spiritual process because Krsna and the name Krsna, Krsna the person and Krsna the name, They are nondifferent, Absolute. That is the God's special power. Just like in the material world, if you want water, simply by chanting the name "water," you'll not be benefited.
Reporter (3): No.
Prabhupada: But in the spiritual world, the name, "water," and the substance water, is the same. Similarly, Krsna and Krsna's name is the same. So if you chant Krsna, you immediately directly contact with Krsna.
Reporter (3): What do you see as being the future of the world? What will happen? Will there be an end?
Prabhupada: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.
Reporter (3): Yes, but what do you see happening to the actual world? Do you see any... You know, with Christianity and other religions?
Prabhupada: Eh, what is that?
Reporter (3): You know, with Christianity and other religions, the world has...
Prabhupada: The Christianity, if you...
Reporter (3): ...a beginning and an end.
Prabhupada: Yes. We also believe that, that the world has a beginning, and it has an end. Anything material. Just like my body, your body. It has got a beginning from the father, mother, and again it will end. So anything material, it has beginning and end. But the, within the body, the spirit soul, the spirit soul has no beginning, no end.
Reporter (3): So how long has Krsna consciousness been in India, or were you...?
Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness is in India from Vedic age, since a very, very long time. But especially since five thousand years ago when...
Reporter (3): So you, you didn't start everything off?
Prabhupada: No, no, no. I'm simply presenting in English language. That's all.
Reporter (3): Yes.
Prabhupada: It is already there.
Reporter (3): Yes. What, what... And can I ask one last question?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Reporter (3): What do you think of young people who follow the Divine Light Movement.
Hamsaduta: Guru Maharaji.
Reporter (3): And...
Prabhupada: That is a bogus.
Reporter (3): It's bogus.
Prabhupada: Yes. (chuckles)
Reporter (3): What about... How do you know? Have you met him?
Prabhupada: He says that he's God.
Reporter (3): Hm.
Prabhupada: Does he not?
Reporter (3): Yes.
Prabhupada: Therefore it is a bogus thing.
Reporter (3): Yes. Yes.
Prabhupada: Anyone who says that: "I am God," he's a rascal.
Reporter (3): Yes. Right. And what about the young Christian Revival?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Reporter (3): The Jesus Movement?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hamsaduta: The Jesus Movement. What about it?
Prabhupada: Jaybees?
Hamsaduta: Jesus. Jesus Movement.
Prabhupada: I do not know. I do not know.
Reporter (3): You haven't heard of it?
Prabhupada: No, I have no knowledge.
Reporter (3): Well, thanks for talking to me.
Prabhupada: Thank you. You have take prasada. Plate.
Reporter (3): Yes, I have. I had some.
Prabhupada: Yes, take prasada.
Reporter (3): No... (pause)
English girl: I've committed many sins in this lifetime. How can I make my peace?
Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?
Girl: I've committed many sins in this lifetime. How may I make peace?
Hamsaduta: She says she has committed many sins in this lifetime. How she can make peace?
Girl: Secretary.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Girl: Secretary.
Hamsaduta: Secretary.
Prabhupada: Secretary.
Hamsaduta: Typing, typing.
Girl: For the Tower.
Hamsaduta: So why not type for Krsna? We have got so much to type, books, manuscripts. Serve Krsna and chant Hare Krsna, and associate with these devotees. Then everything will be all right.
Girl: Thank you.
Prabhupada: Thank you.
Hamsaduta: Want to go now, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
English Boy: [break] I'm not from a newspaper. So I've got nothing really to ask you.
Prabhupada: Oh.
English Boy: I'd like to...
Prabhupada: Which newspaper?
English Boy: I'm not from a newspaper.
Hamsaduta: He said he's not from any newspaper, but he would like your blessings.
English Boy: I do, regularly.
Prabhupada: But when I go to London temple, I don't see you.
Prabhupada: I, I, I think there is something wrong. What is that?
Prabhupada: No.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: So you are a good boy. You were doing good book selling. Now you have stopped. Why?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: No, I no... You cannot forget your duty. If, if there is some extra duty, that does not mean you shall forget your own duty. So now they are selling books. You also join. Yes. And you have no tilaka. You are just like ordinary boy. Why?
Prabhupada: No, no. This is not good. This is not good. You must be as our representative, with tilaka, as we are dressed. Yes. Don't be deviated. You have got a good opportunity. Don't be deviated by bad association. Yes. You are a good boy. So you must revive to your original position. All right. Thank you.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hamsaduta: The reception, did you like the reception?
English Boy: I'm trying to spread the word at school. I'm telling all my friends about Krsna.
Prabhupada: Very good. That will help you. All right. So?
Prof. Gombrich: [break] ...actually.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: Professor Gombrich.
Prabhupada: Oh. So you have seen our books?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I have, yes. You are travelling to India, I hear?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prof. Gombrich: You are setting up a university in India?
Prabhupada: In... What is that?
Hamsaduta: Are you establishing a university in India?
Prabhupada: It is not so easy thing. (Hindi)
Prof. Gombrich: At Navadvipa?
Prabhupada: Navadvipa, yes.
Prof. Gombrich: And, uh...
Prabhupada: We have begun teaching, but I do not know when it will become a university. That is a big job.
Prof. Gombrich: I see, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prof. Gombrich: Who is teaching there?
Prabhupada: Our students. We have got these books. That's all.
Prof. Gombrich: You don't have the Bengali panditas teaching Sanskrit?
Prabhupada: At least, at the present moment, we haven't got. They're... Generally, in India, they want to learn English. So, as soon as they learn English, they can read our books. And Sanskrit is also... You have seen? We have given each word meaning, Sanskrit. The pronunciation. Oh yes. Here is the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Prof. Gombrich: So in Navadvipa, will the instruction be in English or in Bengali?
Prabhupada: These boys, they do not know Bengali.
Prof. Gombrich: Oh, I see. So it's literally for English-speaking devotees.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not English-speaking. They are Bengalis, the students. But they want to learn English. Therefore we are teaching English.
Indian Man: Is this a government-recognized college now?
Prabhupada: No. Government recognition means we have to abide by the orders of government. We cannot teach Bhagavad-gita only or Bhagavata. But our aim is to teach... We have got another school in Dallas for small children. There we are Sanskrit, teaching Sanskrit and English. Yes.
Prof. Gombrich: Yes. But did you yourself study Sanskrit at Vrndavana or...?
Prabhupada: No. We had studied Sanskrit in school, colleges. In our time, Sanskrit was compulsory. In our days. Nowadays, I don't think so...
Indian Man: I, I also had compulsory.
Prabhupada: Sanskrit compulsory and additional there was Sanskrit. So I took both, compulsory and additional.
Prof. Gombrich: I see.
Prabhupada: Up to my I.A., I regularly studied Sanskrit, and in my B. A., I gave up Sanskrit. I read history. (laughs) No. Not in B.A. B.A., my combination was economics and philosophy. In I.A. I was intermediate, I.A. I had history and Sanskrit.
Prof. Gombrich: That was at Calcutta University?
Prabhupada: Yes. Calcutta University, Scottish Church's College.
Prof. Gombrich: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: You have been in Calcutta?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I have.
Prabhupada: Oh, you know Scottish Church's College?
Prof. Gombrich: I'm afraid not. No.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prof. Gombrich: No, I'm afraid I've only been to Presidency.
Prabhupada: Presidency?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So the Scottish Churches College is also on the same standard, Presidency College.
Prof. Gombrich: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you are teacher there? No.
Prof. Gombrich: I teach in Oxford, yes.
Prabhupada: You teach in Oxford?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes.
Prabhupada: But in India went to visit?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I lived for two years in Ceylon.
Prabhupada: Ceylon?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prof. Gombrich: My speciality is Buddhism.
Prabhupada: Buddhism.
Prof. Gombrich: Yes.
Prabhupada: A religious student. A specialist in religious, comparative study of religion?
Prof. Gombrich: Well, not so much comparative. I main, I really teach Buddhism itself.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prof. Gombrich: Through Sanskrit and Pali.
Prof. Gombrich: It's not so different, yes. Derived from Sanskrit. And at Vrndavana you studied at a later time, then, did you?
Prabhupada: Vrndavana, I studied the Vedic literature, Srimad-Bhagavatam, as I mentioned so many, Upanisads, Vedanta-sutra.
Prof. Gombrich: Then that was after the university?
Prabhupada: Yes, that was after my retirement.
Prof. Gombrich: I see.
Prabhupada: But in student life I had knowledge in Sanskrit, and that was utilized later on.
Prof. Gombrich: Yes, of course. And do you return to Vrndavana often?
Prabhupada: Yes. Every year I go there, during the month of October.
Prof. Gombrich: Do you have a particular asrama there?
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Yes. Now we are constructing our own temple also, very big temple. You had been in Vrndavana?
Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Krsna consciousness or Krsna Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Saiva religion or...?
Prabhupada: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Srama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8] Srama eva hi kevalam: "Simply waste of time, laboring." If one does not understand what is God, even after executing very rigorously about his own religious system, if he does not awaken his dormant God consciousness or Krsna consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.
Prof. Gombrich: But do you think for instance, in this country, if somebody is a Protestant, or I mean a Christian and goes to church, this is also, you don't try to convert them away from that?
Prabhupada: No, no. We have no such process (indistinct).
Prof. Gombrich: Because your movement is extremely distinctive.
Prabhupada: Yes. We don't try to convert. Just like one gentlemen was asking, "Why these ladies, girls, they are putting Indian sari?" I never said that "You do that." But they're doing out of their own accord. So I never canvassed to become a Hindu, or like that, no. Our propaganda is, "Just become God conscious." (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1973/sep/interviews_with_macmillan_and_various_english_reporters/london/september/12/1973 Previous: Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm Next: Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay
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