Prabhupada: ...that "Bhagavad-gita is now old. We require new knowledge." What is your answer?

Hrdayananda: That Krsna is eternal and perfect, and whatever Krsna speaks is also eternally perfect.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Sasvata means eternally fresh. Therefore ignorance is also eternal. Because knowledge means absence of ignorance. That is knowledge. So side by side, two things are there. Now, if you are in ignorance, there is no knowledge.

Hrdayananda: Nabhavo vidyate satah.

Prabhupada: Ah. Nasato vidyate bhavah. It is the negative. Positive side is knowledge. Darkness. Darkness. Just like, where there is no light, there is darkness. [break]

Prajapati: ...Prabhupada, we'll be able to see that comet.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Prajapati: They say one hour before dawn in the eastern horizon. [break] ...talking a lot about in trusting in God. What is the Sanskrit for trust? What word would be used in the sastras.

Prabhupada: Sraddha, faith.

Prajapati: And there are particular scriptural verses that speak about this?

Prabhupada: Yes. Caitanya-caritamrta. Caitanya-caritamrta. That is the beginning of spiritual consciousness, faith.

Prajapati: Unconditionally then.

Prabhupada: Yes. Unconditionally means, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], giving up all other conditions of faith. [break]

Jayatirtha: We only hear about him eating.

Prabhupada: Why you did not refute that idea? We see every moment God. What is that light? Even if you see light, what do you gain by that.

Jayatirtha: He says that Guru Maharaji is the light.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Krsna. But why do you say that by Krsna consciousness we cannot see Krsna. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Krsna? Do you know what is Krsna if you have seen Krsna?

Hrdayananda: It's true, Prabhupada. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Light. We have go so many lights. What is the benefit of seeing the light?

Jayatirtha: They only call us so that we'll arrange to bring some prasadam.

Prabhupada: They do not supply prasadam, these rascals? [break] Everyone can see. So if Guru Maharaji is light, then why everybody does not follow? If he is light, light can be seen by everyone. Just like sunlight, moonlight, we can see. Everyone can see.

Hrdayananda: They argue that he only will reveal himself to those who surrender to him.

Prabhupada: But those who have surrendered, they cannot speak anything. They are in darkness. When we talk with your disciple who has surrendered, they cannot argue with us. They are in darkness. So what kind of light he has seen?

Jayatirtha: It is all just sentimental.

Prajapati: Many of these bogus groups, Prabhupada, they claim that God is simply sound and light. So their meditation means seeing what they call ajna-cakra, or point between eyebrows. They see there and they hear sounds, bells and thunder and flute all within. And that is their meditation. Hearing these sounds and see these lights.

Prabhupada: That's all right, but what do you gain by that?

Prajapati: Supposedly they go to higher levels of existence, higher levels of consciousness. They change the sound and the colors change...

Prabhupada: But you cannot give up even smoking. You are in higher level of consciousness? So what is the proof that you are on the higher level of the consciousness? You cannot give up even ordinary things.

Jayatirtha: They say that the scriptures aren't relevant in this age, that they don't make any difference in this age. They were for previous ages.

Prabhupada: Why?

Jayatirtha: Because people cannot understand them, so Guru Maharaji has simply come and making it very simple. He just makes them see the light and then everything is simple. They don't have to do anything else.

Prabhupada: And what is the benefit of seeing that light? He has to work, he has to search out for food. So what is the benefit by seeing the light? By seeing the light, has he become freed from all this botheration? Then what is the use of that light he has seen?

Hrdayananda: Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59].

Prabhupada: Nivartate.

Prajapati: They say the benefit of the light is that light is God. So when they see that light, that is God. So that is the benefit.

Prabhupada: No. When you see light, you must know there is a source of light. Just like you are seeing the light and the light is there. Therefore there must be a source of the light. Unless you see Him, it is not perfect. Besides that, whether you have seen actually the light? What is the result of seeing that light? Do they explain? Suppose he has seen. I have not seen. So what is the difference between him and me?

Jayatirtha: Unless the heart becomes purified, there is no sense in seeing any light. The heart has to become cleansed.

Hrdayananda: They say they will be happier than someone who has not seen the light. Their life will have more meaning.

Prabhupada: So happier, they are becoming happier in so many other ways. What is the use of seeing the light?

Jayatirtha: The pigs are also happy.

Prabhupada: Yes. Don't waste time by arguing with him. Neglect them. Do not talk of them.

Hrdayananda: Just like you say, Prabhupada, they are actually defeating themselves.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Prajapati: The scientists are much more formidable demons.

Prabhupada: Not formidable. They can easily conquered.

Hrdayananda: I have heard that Amarendra is defeating them in Gainesville. He goes to scientific meetings and he defeats them. And the devotees go in the audience, and they cheer, and he defeats them.

Prabhupada: That's right. [break]

Prajapati: Is it sometimes cold in the spiritual world?

Prabhupada: No. (laughter) You don't like to go there?

Prajapati: Oh yes, I like to go there. Actually, I would rather be here in the cold with you, Srila Prabhupada, than be in the warm without you.

Prajapati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.

Prabhupada: Close?

Prajapati: Like this.

Prabhupada: Anyway, close or open...

Devotee: Inner light.

Prabhupada: Oh. Inner light, not outward light. Then he is not absolute. He is relative. He is relative. He is not absolute. So God is absolute. But you are relative. Therefore you are not God.

Hrdayananda: Krsna illuminated the house of the gopis.

Prabhupada: Krsna, he does not accept Krsna. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahih. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. [break] A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. [break] ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Krsna is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Krsna, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gita. (laughs) That is our profit. That's all.

Hrdayananda: Over a thousand.

Prabhupada: Just see. In that meeting?

Hrdayananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: And they could not sell their magazine.

Hrdayananda: No.

Prabhupada: (laughing) So just imagine where is light. In our side or their side? They are deprecating, "Bhagavad-gita is now old. We require new knowledge." Still, we sold thousand copies.

Hrdayananda: Finally the Guru Maharaji said over the microphone, "Don't buy more of these Bhagavad-gitas." (laughter) He said it's not bona fide. I told Prabhupada that when the devotees had a big kirtana, all the people...

Prabhupada: So what was the result, stopped?

Hrdayananda: Yeah, after that it was more difficult. After that, the devotees were preaching more to individuals. But that was already after a thousand Gitas had been sold. Everyone left their meeting and went out to see the kirtana. They had to keep calling them back, over and over again, "Please, please come back." (end)