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730813rc.par
Room Conversation
with Sanskrit Professor

August 13, 1973, Paris
Yogesvara: ...Sanskrit at the University of, at the Sorbonne University here in Paris.
Professor: No, in fact, in the University of Marseilles.
Yogesvara: Marseilles?
Professor: In the southern part of France. Yes.
Prabhupada: So you can show our books, how Sanskrit we have written.
Professor: What?
Yogesvara: He says we can show you our books. These are some of the publications of our society.
Prabhupada: Set all the books. Let him read the Sanskrit portion.
Guru-gauranga: This is Srimad Bhagavad-gita.
Professor: That's the translation of...
Prabhupada: Yes. Each word. Just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.
Professor: This is the first volume. Are you preparing more of them?
Prabhupada: Yes, we are preparing sixty.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: Sixty volumes.
Professor: Oh, that's wonderful.
Prabhupada: Sixty volumes.
Professor: That's a good thing. You know that the first translation of the Srimad-Bhagavatam in any European language was in French in the beginning of the Nineteenth Century by a French scholar called Brenelouf. Yes, it was wonderful translation. But just a plain translation, without commentary. I am sure that your book is more valuable...
Prabhupada: So you can see my mode of translation.
Professor: Yes, because...
Prabhupada: You can see. You open anywhere. Yes.
Professor: Yes, and you have also a commentary.
Prabhupada: Commentary, yes.
Professor: ...of your own, which is most formidable.
Prabhupada: Not my own,...
Professor: No?
Prabhupada: ...but through the disciplic succession. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. In that way.
Professor: From Caitanya.
Prabhupada: From Sri Krsna. You can open the Fourth, Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita.
Professor: Yes.
Yogesvara: This is our Bhagavad-gita, published by MacMillan Company.
Prabhupada: You open the Fourth Chapter.
Professor: Do you think that your mission is successful?
Prabhupada: That is to be judged by you.
Professor: Oh! That's interesting.
Yogesvara: This is the verse here?
Professor: Yeah, Yes this is the verse. People told me that you have some two or three thousand disciples in the Western world?
Prabhupada: Two...?
Yogesvara: Two or three thousand disciples.
Prabhupada: More than that.
Professor: More than that?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: And what about France? Is it...
Prabhupada: That I do not know. They know.
Professor: They know, yes, better than you.
Prabhupada: They bring the disciples. I simply initiate. That's all.
Professor: Have you been many times in France or not?
Prabhupada: This is the third time.
Professor: The third time?
Prabhupada: Yes. Formerly I was going there... What is that place name?
Guru-gauranga: Fontenay aux Rose.
Professor: Fontenay aux Rose. I see.
Prabhupada: Yes. In a sewer. So I had got very poor idea of Paris.
Professor: Really? Why?
Prabhupada: Because in the sewer, I could not see such nice things.
Professor: Here, it's a wonderful location.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Here it is wonderful. Now I can make an idea, what is Paris. Yes.
Professor: Surely.
Prabhupada: I was under impression in Paris there is no nice park. Now this time I see, yes, Paris excels the whole world, having such a nice park. Yes. I saw Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. That is also very nice. But this park is nicer than Golden Gate Park.
Professor: You think so. The Bois de Bologne? is much better than the Golden Gate?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: Well it depends. I like the Golden Gate too because there is the sea not far. Here, in Paris, you have no ocean, nothing.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: Only a small river. That is not the...
Prabhupada: And on the whole, Paris city is very nice. Very nice. Opulent city.
Professor: And they told me also that this morning you had some brahminical initiation to the...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes.
Professor: ...Gayatri.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: How many people?
Prabhupada: About fifteen.
Professor: That's good. That's good.
Prabhupada: No, they...
Hamsaduta: Seven brahmanas and ten first initiates.
Prabhupada: On the whole, fifteen.
Hamsaduta: Fifteen, seventeen.
Prabhupada: Seventeen?
Hamsaduta: Seventeen.
Prabhupada: Seventeen.
Professor: How many levels of initiation do you have?
Prabhupada: Two.
Professor: Two. The first...
Prabhupada: First initiation, experimental...
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. Then, as he practices, becomes more purified, then second initiation. Gayatri. Gayatri-mantra. But the first initiation, according to Jiva Gosvami, that is sufficient. Chanting Hare Krsna mantra, that is sufficient. But still, to purify them more, the second initiation, Gayatri, is given. So we are creating brahmanas in the western countries. Yes.
Professor: Yes. I know. Don't you think it's against the dharma-sastra?
Prabhupada: No.
Professor: No. Tell me why?
Prabhupada: Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. There is nothing, such thing as janma.
Professor: Oh. Very nice.
Prabhupada: And another place, Bhagavatam, there is statement of Narada, advising Maharaja Yudhisthira that yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam. There are symptoms, brahmana system, samo damas tapah saucam ksantir arjavam [Bg. 18.42]. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam, abhivyanjakam varna. Yad anyatrapi drsyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiset [SB 7.11.35]. This is the injunction of Narada, "The symptoms, brahminical symptoms, if it is found in the person who is born in a sudra family, he should be accepted as brahmana. And if the sudra symptoms are visible in a person born in a brahmana family, he should be accepted as sudra." And in the Jabala Upanisad, the Satyakama Jabala... So Satyakama was born of a maidservant, but he wanted to become brahmana. So he went to Gautama Muni: "Sir, make your disciple." In those days, Vaidic brahminical culture, without becoming brahmana, he cannot be initiated. Initiation means to make one brahmana. So, according to our Gosvami process, Sanatana Gosvami, he has given us the book, Hari-bhakti-vilasa. In that book he has written,
yatha kancanatam yati
kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam
Nrnam: "Of all human beings, by initiation, he becomes a dvija." So we follow that principle. And besides that, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered that bharata-bhumite... You understand little Bengali?
Professor: No, Bengali, no, I don't. But it doesn't matter.
Prabhupada: Bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. It is almost Sanskrit. "Anyone who has taken birth as human being in the land of Bharatavarsa," janma sarthaka kari, "making his life successful," kara para-upakara. Para-upakara. Para-upakara means everyone is in slumber and considering himself that he is body, like cats and dogs. Therefore, they should be raised to the spiritual consciousness that "You are not cats and dogs. You are Brahman." Just realize "aham brahmasmi." This is para-upakara. So we are doing that. We are awakening everyone. Uttisthatah jagratah prapta-varam nibodhata: "You have got now human being form of life. Now get up and make your life successful by spiritual realization." This is our message. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. By spiritual realization everyone will become happy. Without spiritual realization, nobody can become happy. This is our mission.
Professor: Thank you.
Prabhupada: So Indian caste brahmanas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.
Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brahmana yourself.
Prabhupada: Yes. I am now sannyasi.
Hamsaduta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.
Prabhupada: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.
Hamsaduta: That's all. No.
Prabhupada: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.
Professor: You know the Kali-santarana Upanisad?
Prabhupada: Kali-santarana Upanisad. Yes.
Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.
Prabhupada: Kali-santarana Upanisad? That is Hare Krsna mantra.
Professor: Yeah, that the Hare Krsna mantra. That's the...
Yogesvara: You mentioned that to Professor Stahl in your correspondences.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yogesvara: You mentioned that in the Kali-santarana Upanisad the Hare Krsna mantra is specifically recommended to counteract the contamination.
Prabhupada: Now it is translated by you.
Professor: Yeah.
Yogesvara: In French?
Professor: In French, yes. I'll send you a copy when, when it's out of the press. It is not a fact at present. Well, I thank you very much for being kind enough...
Yogesvara: If you have questions, you shouldn't feel shy. You can ask whatever you want.
Professor: No, why not?
Prabhupada: No. He has already questioned once, that I am making brahmanawhether it is according to sastra?
Professor: That's the usual question. That's not the first time this question has been asked to you.
Prabhupada: No, it is... We do not do anything which is not in sastra. So this Jabala Upanisad, this Satyakama Jabala, he went to Gautama Muni for initiation. So Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He replied that he did not know. "So ask your mother." The mother was asked also. She said, "No, I do not know." He came to Gautama Muni and said that, "My father's name is neither known to my mother nor to me."
Professor: Yes, yes. I know this story.
Prabhupada: Then he accepted that "You are a brahmana," because he is talking truth.
Professor: The truth, satyam.
Prabhupada: That is the sign.
Professor: The sign. It's a well-known story.
Prabhupada: Therefore, by birth, a brahmana is not made. By character.
Professor: Yes, I agree with that. And what about girls? Do you initiate girls? Or not?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Professor: Do you initiate girls?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. So many girls. Striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim.
Professor: That's...
Prabhupada: Find out this verse, mam hi partha vyapasritya. Give him, Pandita Mahasaya.
mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]
Professor: Just like Gargi and... Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Gargi. Etad viditva yah prayati sa brahmanah.
Yogesvara: It's rather remarkable if one takes into account the fact that most of us come from backgrounds which had nothing whatsoever to do with the standards of brahminical culture.
Professor: That's right. Yes, that's...
Yogesvara: We were, we were steeped in all kinds of bad habits.
Prabhupada: No, according to Vedic injunction, the Westerners are mlecchas, yavanas. You know better than me.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: So papa-yoni. And therefore, Krsna says... What does He say?
mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]
"O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, although they be of lower birth, women, vaisyas, merchants, as well as sudras, or workers, can approach the supreme destination."
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: In another place, in Srimad-Bhagavatam, I think Second, Second Canto... Find out this verse: kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah [SB 2.4.18].
Professor: This one?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupada: Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa...
Pradyumna: We publish these with nice indices.
Professor: Oh, yes, yes. It is so strange to have an index. Yes.
Prabhupada: Index, there is.
Professor: Sloka-suci. Yes, there is index. Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye 'nye ca papa...
Prabhupada: The name, yavana, is there.
Pradyumna: ...yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah. Translation: "Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, and the Khasa races, and even others, who are addicted to sinful acts, can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord due to His being the Supreme Power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him."
Prabhupada: What is the purport?
Pradyumna: Uh. "Kirata. A province of old Bharatavarsa mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of the Mahabharata. Generally the Kiratas are known as the aboriginal tribes of India. And in modern days the Santal Parganas in Bihar and Chota Nagpur might comprise the old province named Kirata."
Prabhupada: They're black.
Pradyumna: "Huna. The area of East Germany and part of Russia is known as the province of the Hunas. Accordingly, sometimes a kind of hill tribe is known as the Hunas, the Huns."
Prabhupada: Hoons.
Pradyumna: "Andhra. A province in Southern India mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of Mahabharata. It is still extant under the same name. Pulinda. It is mentioned in Mahabharata, Adi 174.38, that is the inhabitants of the province of the name, Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhimasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of the Mahabharata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bharata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the ksatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas, just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs, and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens. Abhira. This name also appears in Mahabharata, both in the Sabha-parva and the Bhisma-parva. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvati in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea. All the inhabitants of that province were known as the Abhiras. They were under the domination of Maharaja Yudhisthira and, according to the statements of Markandeya, the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bharata. Later on, this proved to be true, as it was proved in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Abhiras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Abhiras were also formerly ksatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. But the ksatriyas who were afraid of Parasurama and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Abhiras, and the place they inhabited was known as Abhiradesa. Sumbha, or the..." [break]
Prabhupada: One Yavana fought with him, Kalayavana.
Professor: Because usually the Yavanas is considered as being Greeks.
Prabhupada: Greeks.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: Not Turks.
Prabhupada: Turks and Greeks...
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is the mention there?
Pradyumna: Turkey.
Prabhupada: Hm. Then?
Pradyumna: Then... "Another ..."
Prabhupada: As far as I have searched out from Mahabharata... Yes.
Pradyumna: "The western Yavana joined with Duryodhana in the Battle of Kuruksetra under the pressure of Karna. It is also foretold that these Yavanas, that these Yavanas also would conquer India, and it proved to be true. Khasa..." [break]
Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.
Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...
Prabhupada: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mudhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15].
Professor: And in India where is your asrama or something like that?
Prabhupada: My main asrama is in Vrndavana.
Professor: Where?
Prabhupada: Vrndavana.
Professor: Oh, in Vrndavana, itself.
Prabhupada: Yes. Mayapura. Lord Caitanya. And we have got branch in Calcutta, Bombay, Hyderabad. Mayapura and Vrndavana. Five, six... [break] I, I brought with me forty rupees and books. That's all.
Professor: Forty rupees! That was not enough to live in Boston or in New York.
Prabhupada: Yes. And now we are spending about eighty thousand dollars per month.
Professor: Per month.
Prabhupada: Throughout the whole world. But we are selling our books very nicely, about... How many, how much dollars?
Yogesvara: How many, how many lakhs of rupees of books per month, Pradyumna?
Prabhupada: No, no, daily...
Professor: Lakhs of...
Prabhupada: Daily we are collecting about thirty, eight hundred... In, in, in Los Angeles we collect about eight hundred dollars daily.
Yogesvara: More than that.
Prabhupada: More than that. Eh?
Hamsaduta: I think it must be about two thousand, about twenty thousand dollars a day, through the society.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: Just by selling books or...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yogesvara: Just by selling books.
Professor: You must receive gifts as well.
Prabhupada: No gifts. By selling books.
Professor: Why not?
Prabhupada: There are sometimes gifts.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Just like George Harrison has given us a house in London, Letchmore Heath. It is worth 220,000 pounds.
Hamsaduta: Over a half million dollars.
Professor: Accha.
Prabhupada: So you can come sometimes. No you can stay there. It is very nice place. We have 17 acres of land, open, with a lake. It is a royal palace.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are installing our Deity next 21st. So if you have time, I invite you. It is not far, London.
Professor: London is not far. Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: The 21st of September?
Prabhupada: Twenty-first of August.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Yogesvara: In a few days.
Professor: It's a big feast.
Prabhupada: So you are Sanskrit scholar. You can join with this movement and help us.
Professor: Thank you.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because it is worldwide movement.
Professor: I cannot help you. That's, that's...
Prabhupada: No, you can help us.
Professor: That's very strange.
Prabhupada: Some of our students are trying to learn Sanskrit. You can help them.
Professor: Well, he knows very well Sanskrit. He pronounce it very well.
Prabhupada: Yes. He has learned out of his own accord, without taking help from anybody.
Professor: Really?
Prabhupada: Yes. Whatever little help I give, that's all.
Professor: He knows how to chant the Sanskrit...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Professor: ...verse.
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
Professor: So probably this comes from you.
Yogesvara: But here in Paris we are also translating these books now into French.
Professor: Into French?
Yogesvara: Yes.
Professor: Many people are able to read it in English.
Yogesvara: Oh, but for those who cannot read the English, there's necessity in French.
Professor: Quite. Oh, yes.
Yogesvara: For example, Bhagavad-gita, we're preparing now in French.
Professor: Oh? Yes.
Prabhupada: Give him some prasadam.
Yogesvara: In France, I believe, the only version of Bhagavad-gita that people know is Aurobindo's translation.
Professor: No, there are many others.
Yogesvara: Many?
Professor: There are many others.
Prabhupada: English?
Professor: No, no. In French.
Prabhupada: In French.
Professor: Bhagavad-gita? Yes. I think translated I think something like ten or twelve times.
Yogesvara: Ten or twelve times in French?
Professor: Oh, yes.
Yogesvara: He says there are ten or twelve different French translations of the Gita.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: In English also there are...
Professor: Oh, English, more than that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: English, more than that.
Yogesvara: So now we wish to present the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Professor: As It Is.
Prabhupada: Without interpretation. And, according to the trades manager of MacMillan Company, our book is topmost selling.
Professor: I see.
Prabhupada: Yes. Than all other editions. Their report is. They, they print at a time fifty thousand copies. So three or four times they have already printed.
Professor: Really?
Prabhupada: Yes. Since last August, within one year.
Professor: Wow. That's a great success.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Professor: That's good.
Prabhupada: Now they are out of stock.
Professor: Out of stock?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: So they will print it again, no?
Prabhupada: They will print it. They will supply in August or July, they said. They'll supply. So it has come out very successful. Just imagine, 200,000 copies distributed within one year.
Professor: In one year. That's very good.
Prabhupada: And in America, our people go to sankirtana. Many gentlemen comes down, gets down from the car, inquires, "You have got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gita As It Is?" They purchase like that. Yes. At least, they have become inquisitive on account of the word "As It Is."
Professor: What?
Prabhupada: "As It Is."
Professor: Oh, As It Is, yes.
Yogesvara: Because of the fact that our title is "Bhagavad-gita As It Is."
Professor: "As It Is."
Yogesvara: "As It Is." Yes.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Because they have read different interpretations. Now they want to read as it is.
Professor: That's fine. That is fine.
Prabhupada: What, what is your opinion about interpretation?
Professor: Well, it's much better to have a commentary separated, not an interpretation given mixed with the translation. It is not to be...
Prabhupada: It is not good. No. Yes. We cite them...
Professor: It has to be different.
Prabhupada: No, if you have got your own opinion, you can write your own book. But you cannot interpret on the Bhagavad-gita.
Professor: Yes, that's right. You are right.
Prabhupada: Then the authority of Bhagavad-gita is gone. But everyone is doing like that, even Dr. Radhakrishnan and others.
Professor: Yes. I already know...
Prabhupada: Yes. Even Gandhi has done.
Professor: Gandhi also?
Prabhupada: Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. He has also interpreted. He has interpreted, "This body... Kuruksetra means this body."
Professor: But he didn't write it...
Prabhupada: Well, it is not widely read, but this has become a fashion, to give his own interpretation. Yes.
Professor: Yeah, that's right, the fashion. That's the word. That's right.
Prabhupada: But Krsna was not a so, I mean to say, ignorant, that He left something to be interpreted later on by another rascal. No. That was not Krsna's intention. What Krsna says, that is final. So we accept in that way. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So we appeal to the people that "You think of Krsna. You become a devotee of Krsna." All these disciples, they have been taught like that. "You offer obeisances to Krsna." Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji. "You worship Krsna." That's it. And by doing that, they are advancing. Advancing. And before me, for hundreds of years or more than that, the Bhagavad-gita was known to the European and American countries. As you say, there are so many trans...
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: But not a single soul became a devotee of Krsna. There is no history. Yes. So far we know, that by reading Bhagavad-gita, it is meant for making a person devotee of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But before my coming here, so many swamis came, and they preached on Bhagavad-gita, so many scholars came, but not a single soul became a pure devotee of Krsna.
Professor: Yes, because other... So, for instance, you have the Ramakrishna Mission...
Prabhupada: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.
Professor: Yes. This is so.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyasis still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.
Professor: And what about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?
Prabhupada: I don't take account of these because they are not standard.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gita As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Parampara. What Krsna said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.
Yogesvara: Phalena pariciyate.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Phalena pariciyate. Yes. And we shall... Our manuscript is ready for sixty volumes but we are gradually publishing. Already we have got about twenty volumes, different kinds of literatures. Yes. Show all the books. You have seen our books? No.
Professor: No, not very well.
Prabhupada: Show all the books. Bring. Bring him. Yes.
Yogesvara: These are nice paintings as well, you'll find in here. Yes, all done by the devotees. Some prasadam. This Krsna Book is a summary study of the Tenth Canto, Bhagavatam, the intimate pastimes of Lord Krsna.
Professor: And it is just two volumes or...?
Yogesvara: Yes, two volumes.
Prabhupada: Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. The other book is Nectar of Devotion. It is translation from Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu of Rupa Gosvami.
Professor: This is also a translation of it or...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Professor: It's about that, or is it a translation.
Prabhupada: It is summary study.
Professor: Summary study, yeah. Well, the books are well-printed and very well... I like books like this.
Prabhupada: This is summary study of Caitanya-caritamrta.
Yogesvara: We also have now the complete Caitanya-caritamrta being printed by our own presses in New York City, with the original Bengali.
Prabhupada: We have got the manuscript printed? Not yet. No...
Professor: Such wonderful books...
Prabhupada: No, our books are selling nicely.
Professor: (laughs) Well, I believe that. One... It's nice to see that all these books around.
Prabhupada: Two thousand, three thousand dollars daily.
Yogesvara: More than that.
Prabhupada: More than that.
Yogesvara: Much more than that.
Guru-gauranga: Hamsaduta said twenty-thousand.
Prabhupada: Twenty-thousand? Oh.
Hamsaduta: Yeah, we also have so many small books.
Guru-gauranga: These books are all by Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Later on they will write.
Professor: Eh?
Prabhupada: Later on they'll write. Yes. For the time being, I am writing.
Hamsaduta: Each disciple writes one book.
Professor: No.
Prabhupada: And we are printing 100,000 of these small books at a time.
Professor: Each of them, or...?
Prabhupada: Yes, each of them. And as soon as they brought books in sankirtana, people take it immediately"Give me one, give me one, give me one..." That's... These books, we charge fifty cents. They pay easily.
Professor: I saw that in the streets of New York.
Yogesvara: Oh yes, you've seen the sankirtana party?
Professor: No, I have not seen the temple, but I've seen, last time I was in New York, I saw, just in front of the library on the Fifth Avenue...
Yogesvara: He has seen our sankirtana.
Hamsaduta: He saw us on the Forty-second Street.
Professor: Not on Forty-second Street.
Hamsaduta: By the library.
Professor: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: Forty-second and Fifth Avenue.
Prabhupada: Forty-second Street...
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupada: ...there is public library.
Professor: That was about Christmas time.
Yogesvara: Christmas time.
Professor: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Oh yes.
Professor: It was very cold, standing around this...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yogesvara: Then they have to take us seriously. We're there in the summer, and they think it is some kind of a festival, and then they see us...
Professor: It is festival.
Yogesvara: ...in the middle of winter, and they know we're serious.
Professor: It's also a kind of festival at the same time, no?
Professor: That's festival.
Professor: You had a yatra, I guess, in San Francisco, didn't you?
Prabhupada: Yes, Ratha-yatra, yes.
Professor: That was for the first time in '68, I guess.
Prabhupada: This time I was present in the Ratha-yatra. Yesterday, they were showing me the film. It was very successful. Ten thousand people participated.
Professor: In San Francisco, eh?
Prabhupada: No, in London.
Professor: In London? When?
Prabhupada: This July 8th.
Professor: This year?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Srutakirti: Also Melbourne.
Prabhupada: Melbourne. You have got those pictures? Melbourne?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Professor: You are not organizing a yatra in Paris?
Prabhupada: Yes, they'll do.
Professor: Next year?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: We had a very little one in the Bois de Bologne.
Professor: That...
Guru-gauranga: Next year at the Arch of Triumph.
Professor: Well. Wow, it must be something, a kind of happening.
Prabhupada: And Ratha-yatra, when we hold Ratha-yatra, many thousands join. Without becoming our disciple, they chant and dance.
Professor: But did you, did you build a Maha-ratha?
Prabhupada: Yes. I'll show the pictures.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: It was published in, what is that, Observer paper?
Srutakirti: Oh, yes.
Yogesvara: Yeah, the Observer, in London, the London Observer.
Prabhupada: "Rival of Nelson."
Yogesvara: It said, "A rival to Nelson's Column." They showed a picture of the Ratha next to the column of Nelson.
Professor: Oh, really?
Yogesvara: Yeah. Our car was bigger than...
Prabhupada: And they published it, "Rival of Nelson. The great rival of Nelson." They appreciated. Yes.
Professor: Sure, I know...
Prabhupada: Everyone, everyone appreciated. After Ratha-yatra, wherever our men went, they were received very well.
Professor: And what was the attitude of the Indian colony in London?
Prabhupada: I do not know what is Indian colony.
Professor: There are many.
Prabhupada: Yes, there are many. These are some of the pictures in Melbourne.
Hamsaduta: Three carts like this.
Professor: The big wheel. That's nice.
Hamsaduta: You can see. There it's taking prasadam, serving prasadam. Everyone, so many devotees.
Prabhupada: Were there color pictures, small?
Hamsaduta: Yeah, there's a small...
Srutakirti: This one here.
Prabhupada: No, the small...
Srutakirti: No, oh, the small pictures...
Professor: Oh, you got three different carts.
Hamsaduta: Yeah, three carts.
Prabhupada: Here is the gigantic ratha behind the crowd. The police cooperate.
Professor: Oh, yes?
Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone likes. Yes. Even Christian priests they also like. No, any sane man will like because... Somebody sends me money: "Sir, you are doing so nice work, spreading God consciousness. Here is my little contribution."
Professor: I see.
Prabhupada: Yes. From your, these Western countries. Just week before, I got hundred dollars from one gentleman. Simply appreciated that I am spreading God consciousness. So actually we have no program of proselytizing or making Hindu from Christian, Christian... We have no such program. We simply want to see that everyone is God conscious. Never mind through which venue, he becomes a God conscious. It doesn't matter. That is the verdict of Bhagavata:
sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yayatma suprasidati
[SB 1.2.6]
Find out this verse. First, first... Yes.
sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yayatma suprasidati
[SB 1.2.6]
You read.
Guru-gauranga: "Translation: The Supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is self-satisfaction. Yayatma suprasidati. Ahaituky apratihata. So the bhakti cult is open for everyone. Ahaituky apratihata.
Professor: Yeah, but people following you, could, could they stay in normal life, I mean have a business, etc...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Why Not? There are so many...
Professor: You, for instance, do you do that?
Prabhupada: He's a householder. Yes.
Professor: You are still working?
Yogesvara: I design books and magazines.
Professor: Where? I mean, in connection with this society?
Yogesvara: I do work for the society.
Professor: But is it possible to work outside?
Prabhupada: Oh yes. We have many professors. They're being outside. But one thing is that after being interested in Krsna consciousness, they cannot remain outside.
Professor: That's it, the point, yes.
Prabhupada: Because they don't find any suitable place.
Professor: No.
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty.
Professor: Yes. But this gentleman told me that he is married, for instance.
Prabhupada: He is married. So we have got so many married couples.
Professor: Your wife is here?
Yogesvara: Yes.
Professor: In the same society?
Yogesvara: Yes.
Professor: And in the same...
Prabhupada: She also translates.
Yogesvara: My wife translates, and I design the book.
Professor: So do you think it is possible, for instance, to have the husband being involved in this movement and not his wife?
Prabhupada: No, wife also involved. Everyone is involved. The child is also involved. You'll find in our class a small child dancing to the tune. Yes. We have opened one school for children in Dallas. All the grhastha-bhaktas, those who have got children, we send there. Have you got pictures of Dallas? So there we have got very nice building, and, about, for the present, about near about hundred students. They're simply taught Sanskrit and English.
Professor: Nothing else.
Prabhupada: Nothing else. Later on, little geometry, geography, mathematics. They're not meant for outside work. They're meant for as soon as they learn Sanskrit and English, they'll read these books.
Professor: I see. But to get the initiation, you have to be how many years old?
Prabhupada: At least ten years.
Professor: Ten years.
Prabhupada: Yes. Ten to twelve years. That is the Vedic system. Twelve years old. He can be initiated.
Professor: Yes, yes. It is the same as the upanayana.
Prabhupada: Yes. Upa means "near," nayanam, "to bring." Upanayana-samskara. And the sacred thread means that he has been accepted by the spiritual master by bringing him near to spiritual consciousness.
Professor: So at the time of initiation, you not only give the Gayatri-mantra, but also the sacred thread.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: Just we have given Gayatri-mantra... You have got that paper? Yes. Show him. Give him.
Professor: Can I take it with me?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor: I'd like to read it. Well, I have been very pleased to be with you.
Prabhupada: Take prasadam.
Professor: Thank you. I may take just one, thank you.
Prabhupada: No, take.
Professor: More, I cannot take. It's not possible. Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: [break] ...Krsna, in His childhood. You have seen the picture, Lugdu Gopala.
Professor: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: We are therefore going to Krsnato taste lugdu with him. Lugdu, kachori... From that Krsna Book... You can find out that picture.
Yogesvara: Find out the picture.
Prabhupada: How Krsna is enjoying lugdu with His friends.
Professor: Yes.
Yogesvara: He's taking lunch.
Prabhupada: Yes. They're taking lunch, and Brahma is playing trick.
Yogesvara: You know the story?
Professor: Of what?
Yogesvara: Lord Brahma stole away all of Krsna's cows and...
Professor: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I know.
Prabhupada: And Krsna again expanded Himself into so many cows, calves, friends. Then Brahma thought that he is defeated.
ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis-
tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih
goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.37]
Professor: Yes, this time...
Prabhupada: All right. Thank you.
Professor: Thank you very much. (end)

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