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701106SB.BOM
Prabhupada:
There was topics of the different hellish conditions of life according to different sinful activities. There is description in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Fifth Canto, the different planetary systems of this universe, how each and every planet is different from the other by its atmosphere, by its inhabitants, dealings. Just like modern scientists, they are finding difference between this planet and the moon planet. They say that there is no living entity. That is not fact. They... Even though they have reached the moon planet, it is not a fact that there is no living entity. Accepting they reached the moon planet, they might have gone to the part where it is desert or barren land, because in each and every planet there is such possibility. In our, this planet also, when I was passing through the Suez Canal, it is horrible desert. So if somebody drops in that Arabian desert and concludes that there is no living entity in this planet, it is simply foolish. Similarly, these people are going, maybe going... First of all, I don't believe they have gone, frankly speaking. Even they have gone, they are landing in some part of the moon planet where there is no inhabitation.
But there are different kinds of planets. That we get from Vedic literatures. Vibhuti-bhinnam. Bhinnam means different, and vibhuti means opulence. Every planet has got special opulence. Just like the moon planet. It is shining. It has got a special opulenceit is shining. The sun planet is so hot and so brilliant. Similarly, each and every planet, either small or big, they have got a particular type of opulence. That is stated in the Brahma-samhita. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagadanda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Vibhuti-bhinnam. In this planet also, different places have got different opulence. Just like in India you will find throughout the whole year brilliant sunshine, and in Western countries, in London, hellishalways moist, raining, and cloudy. You cannot distinguish whether it is night or day. In our... Now I was in London. When I was, I think, last year, in this time, December, the morning was at ten o'clock, and the evening was at three o'clock. So how many hours from ten to three?
Devotee (1): Five.
Prabhupada: Five hours day. And nineteen hours night. So, of course, I was rising, as usual, early in the morning, so I wanted to go out. So I couldn't go out before half-past-nine to the Regent Park, and it was full of snow and ice, and it is very difficult to walk. So just like in this planet there are different places of different conditions, so it is natural to accept it that different planets have got different atmosphere, different opulences, different kinds of population, living entities. Kesava tuya jagat vicitra. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung that "My dear Krsna, Your creation is variegated." There are different types. Similarly, there are planets where hellish conditions perpetually continue. Just like you can compare the northern pole. It is a hellish condition within this earth. And similarly, there are planets, so, and they are suffering. So Pariksit Maharaja inquired that
"You have described 'For this kind of sinful activities one has to take his birth in this kind of planet or this kind of place.' Now please let me know how these suffering living entities can be delivered from this suffering condition, different varieties of suffering condition." Ugra. Ugra means very acute. "If there is any means to deliver them?" So that answer is given.
na ced ihaivapacitim yathamhasah
krtasya kuryan mana-ukta-panibhih dhruvam sa vai pretya narakan upaiti ye kirtita me bhavatas tigma-yatanah So, "My dear king, one has to suffer. This is the law of karma. According to the volume of sinful activity, one has to accept the reaction. There is no other alternative." Tasmat, "therefore,"
...puraivasv iha papa-niskrtau
yateta mrtyor avipadyatatmana dosasya drstva guru-laghavam yatha bhisak cikitseta rujam nidanavit [SB 6.1.8] Just like you are suffering from some disease. So according to the nature of the disease, you have to pay for its medicine. One who is suffering from malarial disease, tuberculosis disease, asthmatic tendency, these disease are considered very severe type of disease. Coughing or having some little fever, they are not very severe. But there are many severe diseases. So as you pay to the specialist doctor or you pay for the medicine according to the severity of disease, similarlyyasmad evam tasmad papasya niskrtau prayascitte yatetayou have to make treatment. And according to the symptoms of the disease, you have to undergo treatment. That is called prayascitta.
Just like if a man who has committed murder... His prayascitta is that he should be hanged. This is prayascitta, life for life. That is Manu-samhita. This hanging a condemned person, a murderer, is a mercy to him. That is stated in the Manu-samhita. People are becoming now sympathetic that "Whatever is done is done. Let this man be saved." This kind of sympathy is no good. People are taking sympathy. A man suffering from certain disease or certain miserable condition. They want to ameliorate it. This kind of sympathy is not sanctioned. He should suffer so that the reaction of his sinful activities in the past life should be diminished. If he does not suffer, then he will have to suffer more, continue, because he is condemned to suffer so much. If you minimize it now, that does not mean he will not suffer. He will suffer next life. Just like a man is imprisoned, and if your friend or relative is imprisoned, by somehow or other you get him released by hook and crook, so when you are again captured you are again severely punished, both the men. Is it not the law? So how can you give relief to the suffering person who is condemned? If in your state law a man suffering in the prison and if you feel sympathy or you may try to give him release and get him out by some hook and crook means, then both of you will be punished. Is it not? So how can you avoid the punishment by God's law?
So this kind of sympathy, just like this Ramakrishna Mission daridra-narayana seva, under the plea of accepting this suffering humanity as Narayana and appealing to the compassion of the people... Although they cannot do anything. Actually they are not doing anything but this philosophy is a rubbish philosophy. You cannot do. If you can do anything good to the people, then you can simply awaken them to Krsna consciousness. That is the best service. Other service you cannot do. Te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni-baddhah. Just like by any means you cannot get released a man who is condemned in the prison. Against law. However sympathetic you may be to your friend, but you cannot release him. That is against law. Similarly, people are suffering, undoubtedly, but they have to undergo the prayascitta process. In the sastras there are prayascitta process. Formerly, even our childhood days, we have seen in Calcutta, there is a special quarter of the bhattacarya brahmanas. The bhattacarya brahmanas' business is that if you have committed some sinful act, you should immediately go and consult the bhattacarya: "What is the process of prayascitta?" Just like you go in case of disease, consult a physician, and take his prescription and diagnosis, similarly, that was the Vedic system.
You have read in the Caitanya-caritamrta that one Buddhimanta Khan, he was formerly... He was very rich man and Nawab Hussain Shah was the servant when he was not Nawab. So he was menial servant. So he stole some money as servants are generally habituated. So he whipped him with his cane. So that whipping stripe was on his back side. When he was Nawab, so his wife saw it and inquired, "What is this scar?" So he replied the whole story, that "I was formerly a menial servant to this Buddhimanta Khan and I did something wrong. So as my father, he punished me. That's all. He was treating me as my son." So he admitted that he was so kind. But his wife said, "Oh, this scar is a defamation. If somebody sees and you explain, then it will be known that you were a menial servant previously." So the Nawab did not mind. He: "What is that? I may be... Now what I am, that's all." So the wife requested that "This man should be killed so that he may not disclose the secret of your life, that you were a menial servant in his house." And "No, no, no. This is... This cannot be. He is just like my father. How can I kill him? This is not possible." And just see. Then she advised, "At least make him Mohammedan. Convert him to be a Mohammedan." In those days it was not very difficult. If somebody, a Mohammedan, takes water from his water pot and simply sprinkle in somebody's body, he becomes Mohammedan. The Hindu society was so rascal. Still they are. Simply by sprinkling water from the pot of a Mohammedan he becomes Mohammedan. So this Nawab said, "All right, I shall sprinkle water. Let him do what he likes," to satisfy his wife. So he did it. When he did itthen the society was so stronghe went to the bhattacarya to consult: "Oh, sir, I have been sprinkled water by a Mohammedan. So what prayascitta?" What is called? What is the English of prayascitta, compensation?
Revatinandana: Some penance.
Prabhupada: No, no. Atonement. "So what kind of atonement I have to do?" So the bhattacarya advised him that "You take one kilo of lead and melt it and drink it, and that is your atonement." You see? So he said, "How it is possible?" "This is the atonement for such sinful activity. Yes." Just see. For the last five hundred, six hundred years... Why...? For thousands of years the Hindu society is so fallen. Therefore so many Mohammedans have increased here. They are not imported. In this way the Hindu population, they have been forced to accept Mohammedan religion. You see? By the Mohammedans. Just like Aurangzeb. He imposed one tax for the Hindus. So all the poor men class, to avoid the tax they became Mohammedans. And there was so much punishment by the Hindus. And so he became a Mohammedan, so-called Mohammedan, by the diagnosis of the bhattacarya. So this kind of prayascitta was current during the fallen days of the Vedic society.
But in the sastras there are... In every scripture... Just like in Christian, their prayascitta is to confess, similarly, there are different types of prayascitta. So here Pariksit Maharaja is advised, yatha puraiva. Yatha evam tasmat papasya niskrtau prayascitta yateta kada mrtyu puraiva. So prayascitta. If you want to be free from the reaction of the sinful activities in this lifeexactly in the same way as Christian Bible advises that you have to make some atonement, go to the church and confess your sinful activities and pay some fineexactly in the same way in Vedic scriptures also, that "Before death you must make some atonement; otherwise you will continue in your next life." Tasmat puraivasv iha papa-niskrtau yateta mrtyor avipadyatatmana [SB 6.1.8]. "Before you meet your death, that you should take." Dosasya drstva guru-laghavam yatha. And you have to make atonement according to the gravity of your sinful activities. Yatha bhisak cikitseta rujam nidanavit. Just like nidanavit. Nidana means a expert physician. He prescribes medicine and advises treatment according to the gravity of the disease. Similarly, you have to undergo atonement for the sinful activities according to the gravity. That is the treatment. Then... The king is very intelligent. He is not only king but he's a great devotee of Krsna, Krsna conscious. So he replied, "What is the use of this kind of atonement?"
drsta-srutabhyam yat papam
janann apy atmano 'hitam karoti bhuyo vivasah prayascittam atho katham [SB 6.1.9] "Sir, what is the value of this atonement? If people continue to act sinfully, then what is the use of this kind of prayascitta?" This is a very intelligent question. Suppose a man suffering from venereal disease goes to a doctor and he prescribes some medicine and gives him some diagnosis that "You should live in this way, in that way." But after the disease is cured, immediately if he commits the same sinful act, then what is the value of the treatment? The same thing, just like namnad balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. In every society this is going on. In our Krsna conscious society, or those who are Vaisnava, they are, some of them are thinking like that, that "I am chanting Hare Krsna mantra, so if I commit some sinful act, then I shall again chant Hare Krsna and it will be adjusted." And Christians also think like that, that "I may commit sins throughout the whole week, and on Sunday I shall go to the church and confess it. It will be counteracted." So this defective conclusion of the human society is interrupted here by the question of Maharaja Pariksit, that
drsta-srutabhyam yat papam
janann apy atmano 'hitam karoti bhuyo vivasah prayascittam atho katham [SB 6.1.9] So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the sastra that "If you commit this sin..." Just like mamsa. Mamsa, this very thing, means, mam sa khadati. Therefore flesh is called mamsa. "The animal which I am killing, he will have the right to kill me and eat me." That is going on, repetition: "I kill you this life. Next life you kill me. In this life you have become a cow or goat. Next time I'll become a cow or goat. You have the right to kill me." This is called karma-bandhana.
So we hear from the sastras. You may not believe, but we can see practically that a man who has committed murder, he is also hanged. There is no doubt about it. "Life for life." So how these foolish persons very, I mean to say, boldly killing animal? If it is a fact even in your state law that "life for life," how I can dare to commit murder or kill another animal? You see? And this is conclusion. The sastra says that you have to pay that particular individual soul by your life. That is the meaning of mamsa, the Sanskrit word mamsa. Mamsa khadati. I am taking the risk. When I kill one animal for eating, I am taking the risk that "This animal sometimes will kill me." Exactly in the same way, life for life, murder, murderer is hangedthat is the law of the stateso why not that law in the state of the Supreme? Is that very unreasonable? But they do not see. Pariksit Maharaja says that drsta-sruta. In the scriptures or in the religious lawbooks I have heard it that this kind of sin will be reacted in this way. And drsta, and I have seen also that a man committing murder is hanged.
So drsta-sruta yat papam. So this kind of sinful activities, janann apy, everyone knows. Yesterday we were speaking of seeing and hearing. These experiences gathered by seeing and hearing is very important. This is tangible. So these two words have been used, drsta-sruta: "by hearing and by seeing." Everyone knows that there is sinful reaction. Janann apy. What is that? Atmano ahitam, atmana: it is disastrous for his self. He has to undergo so much punishment. Still, karoti bhuyo vivasah. Vivasah means automatically. He has been habituated. Automatically he commits the same sin, vivasa. Prayascittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhattacarya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or... You take in any, any field. So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that "I shall be again put into the prison." Still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves. At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.
Himavati: Swami, many people also think that "If you're sinful, how can church help you? What is the use of going to church?"
Prabhupada: Yes. If you... That will be discussed. This is the point. This is being discussed. It is not the... It is not the question of atheism. Their point is "What is the use of going to the church?" But the use is that if he goes to the church, if he actually hears about, I mean to say, glorious life, to become devotee, to understand God, then the utilization of going to the church is all right. But if he goes with that spirit that "I shall go to the church and my sinful activities will be counteracted by giving some bribe and going to the church. Then it is very good..." But his motive is different. Churchgoing is not for that purpose. That is a facility.
Just like we are preaching, "You chant Hare Krsna mantra and ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]your sinful activities will be counteracted. Krsna says that 'You just surrender unto Me and I shall give you protection from the sinful acts.' " So if I think, "It is very good. Then I shall go to Krsna. I shall take to Krsna consciousness, and He will protect me from the sinful reaction. So it is a great opportunity. You become Krsna conscious and commit all sinful activities, Krsna will give me protection." And that will create certainly atheism: "What is this bogus thing?" But that does not mean... So, you surrender to Krsna. Krsna takes charge of your past sinful activities. But that does not mean that I shall remain Krsna conscious, at the same time I shall go on committing sin. This, for this facility, if anyone takes to Krsna consciousness, that is most sinful, that "I shall take to Krsna consciousness because whatever sinful activities I shall do, it will be counteracted by Krsna." So that will create certainly atheism, that "What is this bogus talk?" Do you follow? Yes. But that is not meant for.
Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted Jagai Madhai on the condition that they will not commit any more sinful activities. So whatever they have committed, that is excused. Just like I am also accepting. Not that on the condition that you take to Krsna consciousness and whatever you do, it will be counteracted. We are not making that condition. We are making condition that you take to Krsna consciousness. Whatever sinful activities you have done, that will be squared up. But you don't do any more. Don't have illicit sex, don't drink, don't do this, don't do this. So you must take it in that (indistinct). Whatever you have done, that is no disqualification. That will be squared up. But not that on the strength of your Krsna consciousness you'll do again. So these people are misunderstanding that "Church is giving me some facility that 'All right, whatever you have committed, that you confess. It is excused.' " But if the church and the people make a business that "All right, throughout the whole week let me commit all kinds of sins and on Sunday it will be all counteracted..." Yes?
Revatinandana: There's one example I just remembered from the Christian Gospel. Jesus was accustomed to heal diseased people. And one time they brought a leper or somebody with a very bad disease before him. Or he was blind or something. And they asked him, "Can you heal this man?" And instead of saying, "Be free from leprosy," he said, "Your sins are forgiven." And they said, "Oh, what is this? We don't want you to forgive his sins. We want you to cure his disease." Jesus said, "What is the difference? Your sins are forgiven you." And when he said that the man's disease was healed and then he said, "Now go away and sin no more."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: That was a reference about karma. Those who do not understand... It was a lesson on karma.
Prabhupada: So there is no value of this question of the atheist. They do not know what is the meaning of going to the church or going to the temple or church or spiritual master. That is a foolish question. The church does not allow. But if the church does not disclose this fact, that "Oh, I see every week you come. What is this nonsense?" But the priest, they get some money and they want to continue their church business to get some money. So this is going on, cheating and cheated. Therefore the society has become the full of cheaters and cheated. So the cheating cheaters are not encouraged. If in the church or if anywhere, in the court, they are all full of cheaters and cheated, then what can be done? But either the court or the church is not meant for that purpose, that they will excuse the sinners every week without questioning and without giving him full, nice instruction that "You cannot do this." But if they say like that, then no more, nobody will come. Their income will be lost. So therefore they are cheated and those people who are thinking that "I have gone to church and my priest has excused me. I have confessed," this is cheating. That's all. Actually the purpose is different.
Revatinandana: The priests are all driving Lincoln-Continentals. All the priests drive very expensive automobiles. They're all dressed very nicely and they have very big cars, Catholic priests. They get so much money for forgiving sins.
Prabhupada: They get money?
Revatinandana: Yes, in Europe they used to sell indulgences. For a certain amount of money you get a certain indulgence.
Prabhupada: Here also. The priests allow. The guru allow. The professional guru... His disciple will come: "Sir, doctor has advised me to take fish. Without taking fish my eyesight will be lost. He has advised. So what to do? You have asked me not to take fish. You said." "Oh, all right, I give you permission." He gives his permission. This is going on. "I give you per..." Because the guru sees that "If I say no, this rich disciple will be lost. So better let him do whatever he likes. I get my fees. That's all." This is going on. That statement of my Guru Maharaja, "the society of the cheaters and the cheated," is a fact everywhere. In a law court also, you bribe; you get justice. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Arghyena nyaya-rahitam: "If you have got no money, then you cannot get justice in this age. You cannot get justice." It is clearly stated here. That is the symptom of this age. In the law court you have to bribe. In the judges...
I know so many cases. The judges are bribed and they give favorable judgment. You bribe any judge, then he accepts. One big judge and a big man's brother, P.R. Das. He was a very famous judge in high-court and, in Patna high-court, and he is the brother of a great pleader, C.R. Das. So he was taking bribe. He was taking bribe. And this was known to the other judges and the chief justice also. Complaint was there by other judges that "He takes bribe." So in one case... Because there are rivals in everywhere. You see? So in one case he was to just deliver the judgment and everyone knew that he has taken already bribe, some thousands of rupees. So chief justice called him in his room, that "Mr. Das, I have heard that you do this business, and you have done this also today. All reports are with me. You immediately resign and go. Otherwise I shall take action. You immediately resign and go away. Otherwise I'll take action. I have got all evidence." So when he saw that "There is now no way out." So he resigned that "On consideration on health. I am feeling very weak. My heart is palpatating." In this way wrote and resigned and immediately he left high-court, and the judgment was saved, and it was announced, "Mr. Das is very ill, sick, so today's court is closed. It will return tomorrow." So that means that was the last day of his sitting in the court, and he retired. I think that man is still living or dead? He was taking. And when he was asked by his friends that "Why did you take bribe?" So, "I get only four thousand rupees. I have got expenditure, ten thousand. What can I do?" You see? A big judge. He was doing that business. That is within our experience.
Malati: That (indistinct) Das in Calcutta was a (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Huh? Which missionary?
Malati: That (indistinct).
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is different. This is a different Das. So so many cases, I know, in the legal take bribe. They take bribe. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with vicious condition, anywhere. You go to the court, you go to the church, you go to the priest, you go to the so-called spiritual master... The time is so vicious. You see? The only rescue is to become sincere to Krsna consciousness. Then one is safe. Otherwise the whole atmosphere is very dangerous. That's all. (devotees offer obeisances) [break] There are nice birds. Cuckoo.
Devotee: That cuckoo bird?
Prabhupada: "Co-co, co-co, co."
Hamsaduta: In India everything is alive.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hamsaduta: In India it appears that everything is alive.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: When we came we first noticed everywhere there's a town, all kinds of animals are living. No one is disturbing them.
Prabhupada: Well, this is land of religion. It is admitted by other parts of the world. Just see. Columbus was searching after India even for trade, hundred of years... People are coming to India for so many: for knowledge, for philosophy, for trade, for money. Why these Britishers came? They came for money. And now, India being exploited for so many thousands of years and their standard of civilization deteriorated, the condition is now... Still, India's position is unique, still, in this fallen condition. Now people are degraded from their high standard of living, from spiritual point of view, material point of view. And still, they stand, previous social construction, their living condition, their feelings of religion. It is still going on. Climate also.
Hamsaduta: Climate.
Prabhupada: Climate also. The climate is very favorable. Now it is, of course, winter season. Otherwise, it will continue for two months only. It is not very severe, and still, this condition will not continue. Throughout the whole year you can remain naked body. There is no expenditure for dressing much. And to remain clean, you simply wash in the water, and immediately it is... So with one cloth or two cloths you can go on for six months. There is no much expenditure. And this vegetarian diet, if you take a few grains of this chick pea and little milk, you don't require anything to eat. Everything, facility, is there still. But they have... The people are being trained up to imitate Western civilization. That is the government policy, that, "Unless you become Westernized, technologist, you'll not be happy." But they can become happy even in this condition. This artificial partition has caused some trouble by the Britishers because the Pakistan has taken away all the wheat and rice. Their purpose was that. The Punjab side, they are producing wheat in very large quantity. In Bengal, that is the, perhaps the biggest rice producing country in the world, Bengal. So rice is in Pakistan and wheat is in Pakistan. Even cows, they were maintained by the Punjabis, big, big cows, milk-producing. They are now in the Punjab. So there is no milk, there is no rice, there is no wheat. And they have no sugar. The sugar is produced this side. In this way, always. And the Kashmir question... That is British policy. Due to this partition only, India's position is now very crippled. And these rascal leaders, they accepted partition for becoming prime minister. This policy. Gandhi never agreed. So the Jawaharlal Nehru, in order to become prime minister, he committed such a blunder. Therefore India is given... Still, if they keep to their original culture, they will not be unhappy. And you find in every city some such institution as this Gita Bhavan, in every city you'll find. People are contributing. They are coming. They are holding ceremony, calling saintly persons, every city still. Just like we have gone to Punjab?
Revatinandana: Amritsar.
Prabhupada: Amritsar. How people were anxious to hear. Then there will be the Kumbha-mela. If you go to Kumbha-mela you'll see how from all different parts of the country, millions of people will come to participate.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. Millions and millions of people. There is no advertisement but they will come. Government wanted to discourage them in so many ways. In Jagannatha Puri you will find daily, in Vrndavana and all sacred places. The Arya-samajis, the government, they tried to condemn this temple worship, this...
Hamsaduta: Nehru.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nehru, yes. Nehru was such a rascal that he came... Ramakrishna Mission has a big hospital in Vrndavana. So on the opening day he came from Delhi by helicopter. He stayed there the whole day. He came in the morning, and the function took place in the evening. Or in daytime. He left the same day. But he did not visit a single temple. You see? Such an atheist he was.
Hamsaduta: He was also involved in that Jagannatha... There were many carvings on the temple, and he had some of them destroyed, at the Jagannatha temple.
Prabhupada: What it is? What he is destroyed?
Himavati: It was a sun temple. They worship the sun.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes.
Himavati: And there are many obscene statues, so he came to that temple and said, "What is this?" and he had them destroyed.
Prabhupada: He was a great rascal. Change this water.
Revatinandana: You saved us from all these rascals, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Revatinandana: You saved us from all these rascals.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Himavati: You saved us from all these rascals. You're the only one who told us these kind of people are...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: Because if Nehru was a rascal, then what was Johnson and Nixon? What are they?
Prabhupada: They are also rascals. All these politicians, they are rascals. Yes. That is Kali-yuga. Where king was like Maharaja Pariksit, now he is Johnson and Nehru. So how people will be happy?
Hamsaduta: So we have to run some of our devotees for office.
Prabhupada: No, if you can make the people Krsna conscious, then everything will be automatically..., because the democracy is there. So if they vote for a Krsna conscious person to become president and prime minister, then everything will be saved. So that means you have to create voters, Krsna conscious. Then everything will be right. That should be one of your aims, the Krsna conscious movement. The government still is under the control of the public. That's a fact. If the public becomes Krsna conscious, naturally the government will be Krsna conscious. But that is up to the public. But they do not want to be. Therefore they want a kingthe crane was sent. You know this story? The frogs, they wanted a king from God, and God gave. He gave them one stone. (indistinct) small. So they were expecting a king. Then, when they saw that king is not speaking, somebody jumped over it. Still, the king did not say. "What can be done to the king?" So they accused the God that "What kind of king you have...? He does not speak. He does not move." "All right." Then He sent one crane. So the crane came and began to catch one like that. Then they became, "Oh, what kind of king?" (laughter) So the public is like that. They wanted. They defied this religious system. They defied their... Yes. The modernized. Who was saying, "the modernized version of Bhagavad-gita?" Chinmayananda?
Hamsaduta: Chinmayananda.
Prabhupada: They're appreciating. You see?
Revatinandana: There's a story I read. Sometimes the... In South America there's a small wild cat called ocelot. And they are like tigers but very small. They eat monkeys. They eat monkeys in the tree. They're cats, about twice as big as a house cat, called ocelots. And sometimes these ocelots, they'll lay on the branch of a tree like they're dead. They don't move. They don't even blink their eyes. And all the monkeys come and they gather around to see the dead ocelot. And finally the monkeys get very crazy and they go, one of them, and pull the tail of the ocelot, and then it's all over. That's how they kill the monkeys.
Prabhupada: Therefore monkeys are considered very fools.
Hamsaduta: Foolish.
Prabhupada: Foolish, yes.
Revatinandana: They're like people, and the leaders kill them.
Prabhupada: There are some birds; they also eat monkeys.
Hamsaduta: Birds.
Revatinandana: Big hawks like eagles.
Prabhupada: Monkey-eaters. I have seen that bird in Los Angeles zoo, monkey-eater bird.
Revatinandana: They're from Africa, big eagles.
Prabhupada: Yes. There are many monkeys.
Himavati: Big monkeys.
Prabhupada: No, no.
Himavati: No?
Prabhupada: That is Bengal. That is called Hanuman.
Revatinandana: You said in Vrndavana they would come in a gang. Three or four will jump out in front like this, and the rest will grab what you have and take it away. You said they would do that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: They're very smart.
Prabhupada: But if you have got a stick they will not come. They are afraid of stick. The dogs also, they are afraid of stick. Therefore in such places one should carry in hand one stick. That is safe. After all, they are animals. They know that a man can strike with the stick very severely. They are afraid of that. In Vrndavana, in the beginning, I was eating, and a monkey entered very peacefully and took it, everything. (laughter) He took everything. I could not replace. I began running. Immediately caught also. They do like that. In Vrndavana you cannot open doors.
Hamsaduta: Really?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Hamsaduta: They come right in. They're so bold?
Prabhupada: Huh? Yes.
Hamsaduta: They're so bold?
Prabhupada: Bold means they will come and they have no tactic. You are eating and they'll enter. Something he will take away. Therefore there are... Just like here, two sets of doors, one net, the railing door. So one door is closed, wooden; another is railing. So railing door must be closed always. Otherwise you cannot eat, you cannot live very peacefully. They may... Monkey will come.
Devotee: Acyutananda said he was making capatis one day, and there was a little, a nail this thin especially to keep the monkeys out, holding the door closed. So he heard a sound outside and thought somebody was coming, and, sure enough, the nail was lifted to see, and a monkey popped in, got his capatis and ran.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are very clever.
Himavati: But after all, they're human beings also.
Prabhupada: Monkey is the last species of life before being promoted to the human being. There are three animals: monkey and cow, and tiger. Lion... Yes.
Hamsaduta: When that promotion comes, Srila Prabhupada, they are not immediately born into a society like American or...?
Prabhupada: No, no. Uncivilized, just like aborigine.
Hamsaduta: Aborigines, negroes...
Prabhupada: Human species. Then gradually they become born in civilized...
Hamsaduta: It must be very difficult to get a birth in a civilized society.
Prabhupada: Yes. Certainly. Therefore it is said, labdhva sudurlabham. [SB 11.9.29] It is very rare, now, especially to take birth in India in the Vedic society. India means within this planet, the civilized Aryan family. Now Aryan families have degraded. Otherwise Aryan means progressive. So all over the world the Aryan families they have degraded. Otherwise the Vedic civilization was Aryan civilization.
Devotee: Some places they recognize that. When we went to one meeting in Bombay...
Prabhupada: The Europeans and Americans, they belong to Aryan family. They have lost their Vedic culture. Now it is being revived again.
Revatinandana: They came from those renegade kings that ran away from Parasurama?
Prabhupada: Yes, there are so many reasons.
Revatinandana: Is it also true that the Scandinavians come from... Kamsa-nisudana was telling me that the Scandinavians came from Skandha, god of war, and that these people were driven out of India by the Hindu society. They were worshipers of Skandha, and they took shelter in northern Europe?
Prabhupada: Maybe. Actually Aryan civilization was central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo-European stock that is called.
Revatinandana: Central Asia.
Prabhupada: Central Asia. Caucasian. Kasyapa Muni's place.
Hamsaduta: How come they're so white?
Prabhupada: The Aryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tan. Indians are tan but they are not black. But Aryans are all white. And the non-Aryans, they are called black. Yes.
Devotee: They use the term Caucasian to designate those persons who...
Prabhupada: Not only Europeans. The Kashmir side of this Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Punjab, they are all white.
Devotee: Caucasaus Mountains is near Afghanistan.
Prabhupada: Yes. All white. In Punjab, you'll find, they are as white as Europeans. Oh, yes. Kashmir.
Himavati: Also in Vrndavana (indistinct). And they're tall.
Prabhupada: Tall. So Aryan family, whole Aryans, they are white. And sudras are called krsna, krsna, black.
Revatinandana: But the sudras have handsome bodily features also. In Amritsar the people have, I think, handsome bodily features.
Prabhupada: Yes, Aryan family, the structure of body... From the... There is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have got forget all these material. We have to advance in Krsna consciousness. This is white skin... So you have all taken your bath? So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath.
Devotee: What to do about a massage?
Prabhupada: Do. Do it. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/1/6/bombay/november/06/1970 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.6 -- Los Angeles, January 3, 1970 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.6 -- Sydney, February 17, 1973
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