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710820SB.LON
Pradyumna: Purport. "In the two previous slokas it has been definitely proved that the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the sublime literature which surpasses all other Vedic scriptures due to its transcendental qualities. It is transcendental to all mundane activities and mundane knowledge. In this sloka it is stated that Srimad-Bhagavatam is not only a superior literature but that it is the ripened fruit of all Vedic literatures. In other words, it is the cream of all Vedic knowledge. Considering all this, patient... [break] ...one should receive the message and lessons imparted by the Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Vedas are compared to the desire tree because they contain all things knowable by man. They deal with mundane necessities as well as spiritual realization."
Prabhupada: Yes. In the Vedas you will find both the knowledge. Because the living entity, anyone who has come to this material world, the cause is that he wanted to enjoy, imitating Krsna. Just like it is practical experience. If we are associated with some big man and he is very opulent, naturally a desires come: "If I could become an important man like him." So that is possible. So as soon as a living entity thinks like that, that he can also enjoy like Krsna, then he falls down and he's given the chance of lording it over this material nature. But to help him, the Vedic knowledge is there. The Vedic knowledge gives him the chance of enjoying this material world under some principles so that some day he may again come back to home, back to Godhead. This is the Vedic literature. The chance is given because he wanted to enjoy.
Just like for example one wants to enjoy sex life. "Yes," Vedic knowledge, Vedic scripture, says, "Yes, just enjoy in married life, not like cats and dogs." This is the difference. So without Vedic injunction, if one wants to enjoy by his whims, then he'll be more and more entangled. But if he follows the Vedic injunction... Just like what is the difference between sex life as married man and woman and without? So far sex life is concerned, there is no difference. But the restriction and the rules and regulation will not make him mad after sex life. That is the... Just like if anyone wants to eat meat... These are natural tendencies. So Veda says, "Yes, you can eat meat, but by offering sacrifice, or just offer a sacrifice before the goddess Kali." In this way... Actually, it wants to restrict, but one who is obstinate, he wants to enjoy, he's given some Vedic direction, "You enjoy like this."
For example, another example can be given: just like the drunkard. The drunkards are given concession. There are liquor shops. The government gives some license to a person, that "You can sell liquor to the drunkards." But this liquor is not available in every shop. There is a particular shop. One has to purchase liquor from that particular shop. That means government is discouraging, but one who is obstinate, to give him some facility, this particular shop is established. Similarly, when there is allowance for sex life or drinking or meat-eating or even gambling, that is not encouraging; that is minimizing the tendency under discipline.
But so far we are concerned, we are above this discipline. A Vaisnava is transcendental. He hasn't got to train under this discipline. Because he takes shelter of Krsna directly, he's given immediately all protection. Krsna says aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami: [Bg. 18.66] "I shall give you all protection from sinful life." Therefore, it is practical experience in USA the government is spending millions of dollars for stopping this intoxication habit amongst the younger generation. But the wonderful thing is they inquire also from us that as soon as they come to our movement, immediately gives up. Why? That is the special prerogative of Krsna consciousness. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. If one becomes Krsna conscious, then all the good qualities of the demigods will automatically manifest in Him. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna manorathenasati dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12]. On the contrary, those who are not Krsna conscious, they have no good qualification. Harav abhaktasya. They are simply hovering on the mental platform, and therefore they fall down. Yes, go on.
Pradyumna: "The Vedas contain regulated principles of knowledge covering social, political, religious, economic, military, medicinal, chemical, physical, and metaphysical subject matter and all that may be necessary to keep the body and soul together."
Prabhupada: Just like in the Vedas there is direction how to prepare by chemical process gold. That is also there. Gold, there is a suggestion that you mix three metals, namely nickel, copper, and mercury, you'll get gold. This direction is there. And many persons, saintly persons, yogis, they know how to prepare it, and they do it. So in that way they meet their expenditures. They prepare gold. The chemical knowledge. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Above and beyond all this are specific directions for spiritual realization. Regulated knowledge involves a gradual raising of the living entity to the spiritual platform, and the highest spiritual realization is to know that the Personality of Godhead is the reservoir of all spiritual tastes, or rasas."
Prabhupada: So this is called pravrtti and nivrtti. Pravrtti means the living entity has come here to enjoy this material world. This is called pravrtti. And the other side is nivrtti. Nivrtti means become detached to material life. So long he'll be attached to the materialistic way of life, there is no question of liberation. He will be more and more entangled. According to his mind, he will get a particular type of body, material body. And there are 8,400,000 species of body. So as soon as one gets the body, he becomes under the laws of the material nature, and the material nature means under the laws, stringent laws, threefold miserable condition, that will continue. Therefore the Vedic literature they gives us opportunity to gradually renounce. Pravrttir esa bhutanam nivrttis tu maha-phalam. That is a pravrtti, inclination. But a Vedic student is trained up in such a way that ultimately he becomes renounced or detached from this material entanglement. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Every living entity, beginning from Brahma, the first-born living being within the material world, down to the insignificant ant, desires to relish some sort of taste derived from sense perceptions. These sensual pleasures are technically called rasas."
Prabhupada: The ants, perhaps you know it, they love very much intoxicants. And therefore they are after sugar. Sugar has got properties intoxication. Wine is made from sugar, from molasses. So the ants, they want to be very much intoxicated. So this intoxication is not only in the human society. In the animal society, in bird society, in beast society. Loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva nitya hi jantor na hi tatra codana. Vyava, vyavaya, sex intercourse, vyavaya; amisa, meat eating; madya-seva, intoxicationthey are there everywhere, not only in human society. This is the pravrtti.
Now the actual knowledge, actual education, means to detach them, not to increase that. But at the present moment the civilization is, they are increasing this desire. Everyone has got this desire. But... That is called civilization, "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." No. The human life is meant for being trained up to be detached. Just like we are training our students. They are not... If not cent percent, major portion, major percentage, they're detached. That is perfection. Gradually detached... Just like if you have got fever, 105 degrees, you should not increase it. You should decrease it. If you increase, "Oh, fever is very nice thing. Let us increase it," then death. As soon as it is 107 degrees, then death.
So this material civilization is like fever. We should not increase it. Neither we should decrease it to such an extent that we shall die. Just like fever. Fever, 105, 107 degrees, 106 degree, five degree, reduce it. Reduce, reduce, reduce. But it must stay at hundred, not hundred, 98 degrees. If you reduce 98 degree, 97, that is also not good. Similarly, our program is not to increase to the death point, neither to decrease it to the death point. Yuktahara-viharasya. We don't say, "Don't eat." Eat, but don't eat more or don't eat less. That is our program. We don't say don't eat. We don't prohibit anything. We don't say, "No sex life." Yes. We don't say no. Yes, sex life, married sex life, regulated sex life.
So everything should be regulated. That is described, that is recommended in the Bhagavad-gita. Yuktahara-viharasya yogo bhavati duhkha-ha. We are executing yoga. So yuktahara. And Rupa Gosvami also says,
Anasaktasya visaya, this is called visaya, material enjoyment. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is called visaya. So one has to give up this visaya. Narottama (Locana) dasa Thakura says, visaya chariya, se rase majiya, mukhe bolo hari hari. Unless you are detached from the visaya... Visaya is there even in birds' life, beasts' life. Visayah sarvatah syat. So in the beginning we cannot give up this visaya all of a sudden. But we should be trained up not to be attached to the visaya.
Anasaktasya visayan yatharham. As much. We must eat. We must eat to the point that we may not die of starvation, not that "There is nice food, oh, let me eat. Then I cannot digest and I go three times to the W.C." (laughter) Not like that. That anasaktasya. One should be unattached, that "I have to eat something for maintaining the body and soul together." Not that to the excess. Anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah. If one makes his life in that regulated way, then he is as good as a... Anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah, nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe. And the visaya enjoyment should be in connection with Krsna. Just like we eat and others also eat, but we eat in relationship with Krsna. Krsna has eaten, and we take the prasadam. In this way we make progress in spiritual life. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Such rasas are of different varieties. In the revealed scriptures the following twelve varieties of rasas are enumerated: 1) raudra, anger; 2) adbhuta, wonder; 3) srngara, conjugal love; 4) hasya, comedy; 5) vira, chivalry; 6) daya, mercy; 7) dasya, servitorship; 8) sakhya, fraternity; 9) bhayanaka, horror; 10) bibhatsa, shock; 11) santa, neutrality; 12) vatsalya; parenthood. The sum total of all these rasas is called affection, or love. Primarily, such signs of love are manifested in adoration, service, friendship, paternal affection, and conjugal love. And when these five are absent, love is present indirectly in anger, wonder, comedy, chivalry, fear, shock and so on. For example, when a man is in love with a woman, the rasa is called conjugal love. But when such love affairs are disturbed, there may be wonder, anger, shock, or even horror. Sometimes love affairs between two persons culminate in ghastly murder scenes. Such rasas are displayed between man and man and between animal and animal. There is no possibility of an exchange or rasa between a man and an animal or between a man and any other species of living beings within the material world. The rasas are exchanged between members of the same species. But as far as the spirit souls are concerned,..."
Prabhupada: You have seen sometimes the pigeons fighting. But a pigeon and crow does not fight. A pigeon and pigeon fights. So this is also another indirect way of love. You'll see the pigeons, they will fight and again sit down in the assembly of the pigeons, not that the pigeon is going to the assembly of crows. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The rasas are exchanged between members of the same species. But as far as the spirit souls are concerned, they are one qualitatively with the Supreme Lord. Therefore, the rasas were originally exchanged between the spiritual living being and the spiritual whole, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The spiritual exchange, or rasa, is fully exhibited in spiritual existence between living beings and the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is therefore described in the sruti-mantras, Vedic hymns, as "the fountainhead of all rasas."
Pradyumna: "When one associates with the Supreme Lord and exchanges one's constitutional rasa with the Lord, then the living being is actually happy. These sruti-mantras indicate that every living being has its constitutional position, which is endowed with a particular type of rasa which is to be exchanged with the Personality of Godhead. In the liberated condition only, this primary rasa is experienced in full. In the material existence, the rasa is experienced in the perverted form, which is temporary. And thus the rasas of the material world are exhibited in the material form of raudra (anger) and so on. Therefore, one who attains full knowledge of these different rasas, which are the basic principles of activities, can understand the false representations of the original rasas which are reflected in the material world. The learned scholar seeks to relish the real rasa in the spiritual form. In the beginning he desires to become one with the Supreme. Thus, less intelligent transcendentalists cannot go beyond this conception of becoming one with the spirit whole, without knowing of the different rasas. In this sloka, it is definitely stated that spiritual rasa, which is relished even in the liberated stage, can be experienced in the literature of the..."
Prabhupada: Rasamalayam.
Pradyumna: "...can be experienced in the literature of the Srimad-Bhagavatam due to its being the ripened fruit of all Vedic knowledge. By submissively hearing this transcendental literature, one can attain the full pleasure of the heart's desire. But one must be very careful to hear the message from the right source. Srimad-Bhagavatam is exactly received from the right source. It was brought by Narada Muni from the spiritual world and given to his disciple Sri Vyasadeva. The latter in turn delivered the message to his son, Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, and Srila Sukadeva Gosvami delivered the message to Maharaja Pariksit..."
Prabhupada: Don't close your eyes.
Pradyumna: "...just seven days before the King's death. Srila Sukadeva Gosvami was a liberated soul from his very birth. He was liberated even in the womb of his mother, and he did not undergo any sort of spiritual training after his birth. At birth no one is qualified, neither in the mundane nor in the spiritual sense. But Sri Sukadeva Gosvami, due to his being a perfectly liberated soul, did not have to undergo an evolutionary process for spiritual realization. Yet despite his being a completely liberated person situated in the transcendental position above the three material modes, he was attracted to this transcendental rasa of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is adored by liberated souls who sing Vedic hymns. The Supreme Lord's pastimes are more attractive to liberated souls than to mundane people. He is of necessity not impersonal, because it is only possible to carry on transcendental rasa with a person. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam the transcendental pastimes of the Lord are narrated, and the narration is systematically depicted by Srila Sukadeva Gosvami. Thus the subject matter is appealing to all classes of persons, including those who seek liberation and those who seek to become one with the Supreme Whole. In Sanskrit the parrot is also known as suka. When a ripened fruit is cut by the red beaks of such birds, its sweet flavor is enhanced. The Vedic fruit which is mature and ripe in knowledge is spoken through the lips of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, who is compared to the parrot not for his ability to recite the Bhagavatam exactly as he heard it from his learned father, but for his ability to present the work in a manner that would appeal to all classes of men. The subject matter is so presented through the lips of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami that any sincere listener that hears submissively can at once relish transcendental tastes which are distinct from the perverted tastes of the material world. The ripened fruit is not dropped all of a sudden from the highest planet of Krsnaloka. Rather, it has come down carefully through the chain of disciplic succession without change or disturbance. Foolish people who are not in the transcendental disciplic succession commit great blunders by trying to understand the highest transcendental rasa known as the rasa dance without following in the footsteps of Sukadeva Gosvami, who presents this fruit very carefully by stages of transcendental realization. One should be intelligent to know the position of Srimad-Bhagavatam by considering personalities like Sukadeva Gosvami, who deals with the subject so carefully. This process of disciplic succession of the Bhagavata school suggests that in the future also Srimad-Bhagavatam has to be understood from a person who is factually a representative of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami. A professional man who makes a business out of reciting the Bhagavatam illegally is certainly not a representative of Sukadeva Gosvami. Such a man's business is only to earn his livelihood. Therefore one should refrain from hearing the lectures of such professional men. Such men usually go to the most confidential part of the literature without undergoing the gradual process of understanding this grave subject."
Prabhupada: In India there is a class, they are professional Bhagavata reciters. They make contract that he shall recite Srimad-Bhagavatam, finish within a week, and he should be rewarded. These things are not recommended in the authoritative scriptures. We should follow the footsteps of Sri Sukadeva Gosvami. He's explaining Srimad-Bhagavatam from the very beginning. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Try to understand the philosophy of Bhagavata. Then gradually, when you are accustomed to understand what is Krsna, then go to the Tenth Canto, wherein Krsna's rasa dance is described. Without reading in the beginning what is Krsna, if we all of a sudden jump over to understand the rasa dance... That is a very natural tendency. No, we should not go like that. First of all, try to understand what is Krsna. To understand Krsna is very difficult subject matter. But by the grace of Lord Caitanya we can understand little about Krsna. And then gradually... Of course, the ultimate goal is to enter into the pastimes of Lord Krsna. But not by speculation or by material misconception. Gradually, step by step. Pradurbhave bhavet kramah.
There is a chronological way or gradual process. Adau sraddha. First of all, sraddha, faith. "Oh, Krsna consciousness is very good." This is faith. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Then, to increase that faith, we should mix with persons who are actually developing or cultivating Krsna consciousness. That is called sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Adau sraddha tatah sa... atha bhajana-kriya. Then, after mixing, after associating with the devotees, naturally one becomes eager to be initiated how to execute devotional service. That is called initiation. Bhajana-kriya. And if he is properly initiated and if he executes the order of the spiritual master, regulative principles, then anartha-nivrttih syat. Then things which are not wanted in our life, that becomes vanquished. Just like nobody will die without sex life. Nobody will die without meat-eating. Nobody will die without intoxication. Nobody will die without playing gambling. These are learned by association only. By bad association we learn how to drink, how to smoke. Similarly, by good association we can give up drinking and smoking. So this is called anartha. Anartha means which there is no gain, simply loss. Practically we can see. So a man who has learned to smoke, he's spending one pound or like that daily for smoking. At least we save that money. We don't smoke. So anartha. There is no necessity, still we have learned.
So anartha-nivrttih syat. If one is actually initiated and follows the rules and regulations, he'll no more be attached with these unwanted things. Then anartha... Tato nistha. Then firm faith. By these four processes the faith becomes firm. Tato nistha tato rucih. Ruci means taste. Just like you are sitting here. Unless you have got some taste to understand Krsna consciousness, you could not sit down. Tato rucih. Tato nistha rucis tatah, athasaktih. Then attachment. Instead of being attached to this material enjoyment, one becomes attached to Krsna consciousness. In this way, tato bhavah. Then ecstasy. Then love of Krsna.
So when you come to the platform of love of Krsna by this process, at that time if we try to understand Krsna's rasa dance, that will be very relishable. Before that, if we try to understand, the effect will be we shall consider Krsna as a young boy of this material world and the gopis are young girls, and they're enjoying. "So let me imitate also and I become Krsna, you become gopis." That will be the effect. Don't do that. First of all try to understand Krsna. Then go to read rasa dance. Finish it.
Pradyumna: "They usually plunge into the subject matter of the rasa dance, which is misunderstood by the..."
Prabhupada: These professional readers, they won't read. Just like we are reading the philosophical side here. They won't go. People are not interested the philosophy. They immediately jump over the rasa dance, and they think, "Oh, Krsna is enjoying with the gopis." Just like we read some novel, one boy is enjoying with another girl. They take it like that. You see? So that is degradation. Avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam, sravanam naiva kartavyam. Therefore Sanatana Gosvami has warned that one who is not actually Vaisnava, a realized soul of this Vaisnava philosophy, one should not hear from him. Avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam, sravanam na kartavya... Don't hear.
So actually, this Bhagavata-saptaha is going on in India in village to village, but we see the effect is that they are not Krsna conscious. They are not as good Krsna conscious as you are becoming. Because they take it as, as a matter of some refreshment. No. It should be taken very seriously and should be heard from the right source. Then you will get the result.
Pradyumna: "Some of them take this to be immoral, while others try to cover it up by their own stupid interpretations."
Prabhupada: Yes, sometimes they say, "Oh, Krsna is so immoral." Yes, that will be the effect. "Krsna is enjoying with others' wives and others' sisters, like that." They'll take it like that. They do it. We have to sometimes explain. They question. Even Pariksit Maharaja questioned. Pariksit Maharaja questioned... Not that he was ignorant. He questioned this fact from Sukadeva Gosvami, and it was answered so that others may understand that Krsna's pastime is not immoral. That is the highest sublime spiritual pastime. Go on.
Pradyumna: "They have no desire to follow in the footsteps of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami. One should conclude, therefore, that the serious student of the rasa should receive the message of Bhagavatam in the chain of disciplic succession from Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, who describes the Bhagavatam from its very beginning and not whimsically to satisfy the mundaner who has very little knowledge in transcendental science. Srimad-Bhagavatam is so carefully presented that a sincere and serious person can at once enjoy the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge simply by drinking the nectarean juice through the mouth of Sukadeva Gosvami or his bona fide representative."
Prabhupada: That's all. Now have kirtana. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/1/1/3/london/august/20/1971 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.3 -- London, August 19, 1971 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.3 -- Caracas, February 24, 1975
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