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710818SB.LON
Prabhupada: Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam [SB 1.1.2]. [break] All right. So what is the purport? Go on. "In the lower stage..." Read.
Pradyumna: "In the lower stages of human civilization there is always competition to lord it over the material nature, or in other words, there is a continuous rivalry to satisfy the senses."
Prabhupada: So this rivalry, it is, of course, found... This rivalry for colonization, that is the special feature of the European countries. Rivalry. In India we have got experience. In America also, they have got experience, Canada. The Hollanders, the French people, the Spanish, Portugal, and England. There was regularly rivalry how to occupy. Within the past two hundred years there was rivalry. So according to Vedic civilization, there should not be rivalry. Tena tyaktena bhunjithah [Iso mantra 1]. You be satisfied what is allotted to you. Don't try to encroach upon others' property. Ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam. That is Vedic civilization. One is satisfied...
In 1942 there was a famine, man-made famine, and in India so many people practically died of starvation. Not died, but they died by eating. There was scarcity of foodstuff, but when public began to give them food, so they ate so much that they fell sick and died, so many people. Not by starvation, by eating. By starvation, nobody dies; by overeating, one dies. That is a statistic. The next death rate is for over-eating. In America is it not? Who said me the other day? The first death rate is from...
Syamasundara: From heart.
Prabhupada: Heart trouble. And the next death rate is by overeating. So there cannot be any rivalry. Krsna, the Supreme Person, nityo nityanam... We are all persons. Just like you consider me, I am the head of your society, similarly, there are so many heads, another head. Brahma is head. There are so many Brahmas. Then, above them, there is Maha-Visnu, head. In this way, if you analyze, you'll go to Krsna, isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1], the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So He has provided everyone's food. There is no problem. It is mistake to accept it that "Because there is overpopulation in the world, there is problem." Just now like we were walking on the St. James Park, the swan, ducks, they are producing one dozen children at a time. And that is also twice, thrice in a year. So they have no problem. Where is the problem of overpopulation? They are not starving. Unless you go and capture them and kill them, they are not dying. You see from the birds, animalsnobody dies of starvation. Eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. Krsna is there. He is supplying food for everyone. So where...? There is no question of starvation. Then why rivalry? Rivalry means "I want to enjoy more sense gratification" That is rivalry. Otherwise, there is no question of rivalry. Everything is there, complete. Purnam adah purnam idam purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. God's creation is perfect. There cannot be any imperfectness. Even there is overpopulation, God will supply food. Don't bother. But because we have no faith in God, because we have forgotten God, we do not know what is God, therefore we have created the economic problem. Otherwise there is no problem. You can see how they are jolly, they are walking. So by nature's study we have to learn. If we don't go to the Vedic knowledge, we can see that "Where is the problem in the lower animals?" There is no problem. They are confident. The problems for lower animal is there when they are in the city, but if they live natural life, there is no problem.
Therefore sastra says, tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. In these different species of life we are wandering in different planets. So trying to solve the economic problem, so many leaders came to solve the economic problem and they went away. The problems remained where it was there. But they are coming and going. Kata catur-anana mari mari yavata.(?) The so-called leaders are coming and going, but because there is no God consciousness, the problems are there. In our country, big leaders like Gandhi and others, they came and went away. They thought "If the Britishers go away, then our problems will be solved," but actually there is no solution of problem. There is Pakistan problem, this problem, that problem. So many problems. So in this way we cannot solve our problems. The problems can be solved if we endeavor for developing our Krsna consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise there is no problem. Read next line.
Pradyumna: "Driven by such consciousness, man turns to religion. He thus performs pious activities or religious functions in order to gain something material."
Prabhupada: Now, formerly... Now also. Those who are not atheists, when there are problems, they turn to God, who are theists. Those who are atheists, they will not. That is, two classes of men there are: atheists and theists. The theist, who believes in God, whenever he is distressed, whenever he is facing some problem, he turns towards God: "God save us." That is nice, very nice. They are called pious. When there are problems, when they look towards God, such person is called pious. It is described in Bhagavad-gita, catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtinah arjuna. Sukrtina means pious. Su means good, and krtina means activities. And similarly, the opposite number, that is called duskrtina. Du means... Dus means bad, and krtina means activities.
So there are two classes of men. One class of men who are pious... Pious means those who are regularly following the religious principles. It does not matter what religion you follow. If you follow the religious principles in whichever religion you accept, then you are pious. If you do not follow the religious principles, then you are impious, duskrtina. So at the present moment, practically all over the world they are no longer interested with God and religion. Just like in your city, London, there are so many churches for sale. Why? Because people have become duskrtina. They are no more interested in religion and God. Just see. Otherwise, why the churches should be sold? People are not interested. In India also, the temples, many temples, they are uncared for. They are not for sale. So maybe some of them are also for sale. But I have seen many temples uncared for. At night, one dog is entering and living within the temple. So people have become disinterested in religion and God at the present moment. So therefore according to Bhagavad-gita such persons are duskrtina. Duskrtina means miscreants or always engaged in sinful activities. If you are not religious, then you must act sinfully.
So people are becoming duskrtina. Instead of becoming sukrtina, they are becoming duskrtina. And as a result of that, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. They are becoming rascals and lowest of the mankind. And whatever their university degrees are there, that knowledge is useless. And they are not going to surrender to God. This is the present position. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. Those who are coming to God, they are called sukrtina, pious. But generally common men, even though he is pious, he goes to God to get some material profit. That is being discussed. Go on.
Pradyumna: "But if such material gains are obtainable in other ways, then so-called religion is neglected. This is the situation in modern civilization."
Prabhupada: Yes. For the leaders. They are seeing this poor man is going to church or to temple for asking God, "God give us our daily bread." They are taking the opportunity to spread atheism. They say, "Well, you have prayed for your bread in the temple or in the church. Have you got the bread?" They say, "No. Not yet." "All right. Come to me. You ask me bread." "Yes." They are innocent, "Yes, Mr. such and such, give me bread," and he gives bread. "Take this bread." Then they are convinced, "Oh, God cannot give us bread. Our political leader can give bread." This is, propaganda is going on. You see. "God cannot give us bread, but our political leader can give us bread." But they are innocent. They do not know that this rascal politician, wherefrom he has brought the bread? Has he manufactured in the factory wheat, rice, grains? Then unless God has given you grain, wheat, rice and other grains, how you can make bread? So far they cannot go. Actually, God gives us bread. If there is famine, if there is no production of grains, where is the politician, father, will (be) who able to give you bread? This requires little intelligence, that "Actually God is giving us bread, not this politician." But people have no such intelligence, and there is regular propaganda against God; so people are becoming godless. The whole civilization is now godless, and therefore there are so many sufferings. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Man is thriving economically, so at present he is not very interested in religion."
Prabhupada: Yes. They are instructing, If you want economic development, why you are going to church and temple? Just start industry. You'll get money. That is, propaganda is going on. At least, in our country, in India, it is going on. "Forget now God and temples. Just try to imitate America. Overnight become industrialist." But they are not teaching them that America or Western countries, after industrialization, now they are producing hippies. That they do not see. They are seeing one side, that "America and Western countries, they have become so prosperous by industrialization. Let us imitate them. We must have." Actually, India, after independence, should have distributed this spiritual knowledge. Why we should compete with industrialization? They have got also demand for the spiritual knowledge. So India should have given the spiritual knowledge to the Western countries instead of competing with industry. And that is a fact.
Now, I alone started this movement. There is so much response because they are hankering after this. Caitanya Mahaprabhu hinted therefore:
"Those who have taken birth as human being as Indian, on the land of Bharatavarsa, they should learn their spiritual asset and distribute it throughout the world for real welfare activity." This was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's indication. That was my Guru Maharaja's indication. With that indication I tried, and somehow or other, it is coming to be successful. Now it is in your hand, you European and American young boys and girls. You take it seriously. From India they are coming, but I am very sorry to inform, they are not giving the real, not delivering the real culture. So we do not want to discuss that point. But now you are intelligent boys and girls. You have taken this Krsna consciousness movement. Try to understand more philosophically and distribute all over the world. That is my request. Otherwise the world is doomed. Without this spiritual knowledge, without God consciousness, the whole world is doomed. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Churches, mosques or temples are now practically vacant. Men are more interested in factories, shops, and cinemas than in religious places which were erected by their forefathers. This practically proves that religion is performed for some economic gain. Economic gains are needed for sense gratification. Often when one is baffled in the pursuit of sense gratification he takes to salvation and tries to become one with the Supreme Lord. Consequently, all these states are simply different types of sense gratification. In the Vedas, the above-mentioned four activities are prescribed in the regulative way so that there will not be any undue competition for sense gratification. But Srimad-Bhagavatam is transcendental to all these sense gratificatory activities. It is purely transcendental literature which can be understood only by the pure devotees of the Lord who are transcendental to competitive sense gratification. In the material world there is keen competition between animal and animal, man and man, community and community, nation and nation. But the devotees of the Lord rise above such competition. They do not compete with the materialists because they are on the path back to Godhead, where life is eternal and blissful. Such transcendentalists are nonenvious and pure in heart. In the material world everyone is envious of everyone else, and therefore there is competition. But the transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy..."
Prabhupada: Therefore this bhagavata-dharma or Krsna consciousness is meant for persons who are not envious. Paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Nirmatsara. Matsarata. Matsarata means to become intolerant when his neighbor is prosperous. That is called matsara. Everyone is envious. If his neighbor, if his brother, if his friend becomes more prosperous than himself, he becomes envious. This is material nature. Similarly, in our Krsna consciousness movement, if we become envious, "Oh, my Godbrother, oh, he has become so popular. He is making so much progress. So put some impediments towards his progressive path," this is also material. The Vaikuntha consciousness is that if your neighbor, if your brother is prosperous or progressive, then one should think, "Oh, he's so nice that he has served God so nicely. God is so pleased upon him that he is making so nice progress." That is Vaikuntha consciousness. And material consciousness is that "Oh, he has advanced so much. Oh, let me check him." This is material. That is going on. The whole world, enviousness. I remember in, long ago, about sometimes in 1936, my eldest son in Bombayhe was in schoolhe stood first. So his class friends became envious that "Here is a boy, he is coming from Bengal, and he has stood first." They wanted to fight with him. My son came and complained to me that "This is the position." Just see. Children even, envious. You see. That means this is the nature of this world. If you prosper, then your brothers and your neighbors, your friends, will be envious.
So this bhagavata-dharma is not for such envious persons. Therefore it is stated here, paramo nirmatsaranam satam [SB 1.1.2]. Not for the envious persons. The envious personsthat means materialiststhey will not be able to understand what is spoken in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad-bhagavate maha-muni-krte kim va parair isvarah sadyo hrdy avarudhyate. So our process is, because we are envious by nature, therefore we have to cleanse our heart. Therefore we have to chant Hare Krsna mantra very rigidly, regularly. Then our, this enviousness, the dirty things will be over, and we shall be able to understand what is Srimad-Bhagavatam... Srimad-Bhagavatam is the graduate study. Those who are interested in God, for them, this is graduate study. The entrance study is Bhagavad-gita. Just like you pass your entrance examination, matriculation examination, then you are entered into college, then you become graduate; similarly, after reading Bhagavad-gita, you are allowed to enter into the understanding of God. Because in the Bhagavad-gita the ultimate instruction is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. There are discussion of the yoga, karma, jnana, bhakti... Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. But ultimately the last instruction is that "This is the secret of success, My dear Arjuna," guhyatamam. "You simply surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection." Ma sucah, "Don't bother." This is required. This is the beginning of God consciousness. So unless we have finished nicely the study of Bhagavad-gita or unless we have accepted this proposition of God that "You surrender," there is no entrance in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.
So our, this Krsna consciousness movement is bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma means one who has at least understood what is God. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu begins His teaching where Krsna ended. Krsna and Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the same Personality of Godhead. As Krsna, He demanded... Because God can demand like that. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just surrender unto Me." What God can say? God cannot say that "You jump over My head." God can say like that, "You surrender." That is God's word. God cannot allow you that you jump over His head. You can jump over His head, but that requires great advancement of love for God. That is another thing. Just like the cowherd boys, they are jumping over Krsna. That position... You can also have, but after krta-punya-punjah. After amassing many lives' simply pious activities, you can have that post. Just like it is said in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
ittham satam brahma-sukhanubhutya
dasyam gatanam para-daivatena mayasritanam nara-darakena sakam vijahruh krta-punya-punjah [SB 10.12.11] Vyasadeva is describing the cowherds boy."Oh, these cowherds boy, they are krta-punya-punjah. They accumulated many millions of births' pious activities, and now they are allowed to play with Krsna as His friend." Krta-punya-punjah. Ittham dasyam gatanam.
So Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore begins... People misunderstood Krsna. There are rascal scholars; they misunderstood. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. "Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me alone." Mam ekam. He doesn't say even to Narayana or Visnu. Because we are so fool. As soon as Krsna will say, "I am Visnu, I am all," then "Everything is one. Everything is one." That's all. Therefore He says particularly, mam ekam, "Only unto Me alone." Because if one understands Krsna, then gradually he understands other things. But in the beginning if it is said... Similarly, in Bible also, I have seen that "Through me." Because they were so fool, if they are allowed to go elsewhere, they will commit mistake. Therefore that was nice. To the foolish person such stress required to be given. Mam ekam. But still, the foolish person misunderstood Krsna, misinterpreted Bhagavad-gita. Therefore Mayavadis. Therefore same Krsna came as Lord Caitanya, as devotee. This time not as the Supreme Personality of Godhead but as devotee, to teach us how to approach Krsna. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
So Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore begins His teaching where Krsna ended. When Sanatana Gosvami approached him, Sanatana siksa... You have learned it from Caitanya..., Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So He begins from that point where Krsna ended. Where Krsna ended? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu begins from there. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. When Sanatana Gosvami inquired from him, "What I am?" so He replied that "You are eternal servant of Krsna." This is the beginning of bhagavata-dharma. Unless we understand that we are eternal servants of Krsna, there is no beginning of spiritual life. It is still material life. That conviction must be there. Go on.
Pradyumna: "They are well-wishers to everyone, and they strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. The contemporary socialist conception of a competitionless society is artificial because in the socialist state there is competition for the post of dictator. From the point of view of the Vedas, or from the point of view of common human activity, sense gratification is the basis of material life. There are three paths mentioned in the Vedas. One involves fruitive activities to gain promotion to better planets, another involves worshiping different demigods for promotion to the planets of the demigods, and another involves realizing the Absolute Truth in His impersonal feature and becoming one with Him. The impersonal aspect of the Absolute Truth is not the highest. Above the impersonal feature is the Paramatma feature, and above this, there is the personal feature of the Absolute Truth, or Bhagavan. Srimad-Bhagavatam gives information about the Absolute Truth in His personal feature. It is higher than impersonalist literatures and higher than the jnana-kanda division of the Vedas. It is even higher than the karma-kanda division, and even higher than the upasana-kanda division, because it recommends the worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krsna. In the karma-kanda, there is competition to reach heavenly planets for better sense gratification, and there is similar competition in the jnana-kanda and the upasana-kanda. The Srimad-Bhagavatam is superior to all of these because it aims at the Supreme Truth, which is the substance or the root of all categories. From Srimad-Bhagavatam one can come to know the substance as well as the categories. The substance of the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Lord, and all emanations, are relative forms of energy."
Prabhupada: It is said, vedyam vastavam atra vastu sivadam tapa-trayonmulanam. There is vastu. Vastu means summum bonum, original, and the vastava. Just like Krsna and His different energies. The different energies are called vastava, "in relationship with vastu," and Krsna is vastu. So here it is said that vedyam vastavam atra vastu. Vastava, you can understand Krsna in all His features. And if you understand, then sivadam, it is auspicious. Tapa-trayonmulanam. As soon as you understand Srimad-Bhagavatam, because it is auspicious, then all the tapa-traya, three kinds of miserable condition of material existence pertaining to the body, mind, pertaining to the infliction offered by others, adhibhautika, adhidaivika, or adhyatmika... So these are, three kinds of tribulations are always going on. So when we understand Srimad-Bhagavatam, the vastu, the substance, and the categories, then immediately it becomes auspicious and we become free from these threefold miseries of material life.
All right. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]
Guest: ...successions of pure devotees of Lord Krsna all over the universe or only on the middle planet, Earth?
Revati-nandana: The question is that are there lines of disciplic succession on planets all over the universe or only on these middle planets, like Earth?
Prabhupada: All over the universe. Narada is moving all over the universe and creating disciples.
Guest (2): Krsna has exhibited His pastimes on every planet in the universe?(?)
Prabhupada: Yes. He is lord of universe. Sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. "I am the master of all universes."
Revati-nandana: But His pastimes in His original form... He asked if Lord Krsna's pastimes are displayed on planets all over the universe. So far the original form of Krsna, that is only on one planet in one day of Brahma. Is that correct? In one universe? I think I read somewhere that the Lord appears in His original form only once during the day of Brahma in each universe, and that was on this planet just five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Therefore it is so purified. Aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam. As Krsna is worshipable, similarly, that Vrndavana is also. It is nondifferent from Krsna. You have been in Vrndavana?
Revati-nandana: No. Calcutta, Bombay. Vrndavana always remains like that, even there is, on the surface people are doing nonsense there? Just like...
Prabhupada: Vrndavana cannot be polluted. Just like within the heart of a hog there is Krsna. It does not mean Krsna's staying in polluted place. The sunshine may be in the filthy place, but sun is not polluted. But the filthy place is purified.
Guest (3): The human society is degrading so fast. You can notice it the last twenty years. Is it... Is it the age of Kali or is it the...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Due to age of Kali. Yes. Due to the age of Kali, it is degrading. So only we can save by Krsna consciousness movement. If not all, some of them can be saved.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why not? It will change in the Satya-yuga. Just like our body is changed, season is changed, similarly, this will also change.
Revati-nandana: There'll be temporary changes due to Lord Caitanya's appearance. Right? Sometimes this question comes up, with the devotees especially, that it says the devotee makes advancement when the spiritual master is pleased. Right? So sometimes the spiritual master is far, far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg temple. He thinks, "How will the spiritual master be pleased?"
Prabhupada: Just follow his order. Spiritual master is along with you by his words. Just like my spiritual master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.
Revati-nandana: And Krsna knows that; therefore we make advancement. He is sitting in our heart. He knows what we're doing. So He sees, "He's serving My pure devotee," immediately there is advancement.
Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual master..., Krsna is not limited. It is not material. You can associate with Krsna and the spiritual master in any circumstance, provided you want two things. Just like we can associate with Krsna immediately if we take Bhagavad-gita as it is. He is not different from Bhagavad-gita. Nama-rupe kali-kale krsna-avatara. Krsna is incarnated in His name in this age. You associate with Krsna's name, immediately associate with Krsna.
Dhananjaya: And his devotees.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Guest (1): I'd like to ask: Does Krsna desire we get a spiritual name?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (1): (indistinct)
Prabhupada: You can answer his question.
Revati-nandana: Actually, Srila Prabhupada explained to me one time that every devotee has got his unique relation with Krsna already fixed up. It's already fixed. The relationship is there. Sometimes that relationship may be with Krsna in His original form. Sometimes it may be with a different form of the different Vaikuntha planets. So it's only that we're devotees of Radha and Krsna. Therefore also our names all have to do with Radha and Krsna, and they are names of Krsna. So we call Vidhanacandra dasa.
Prabhupada: Dasa is always there.
Revati-nandana: But by saying Vidhanacandra dasa means I am also saying the name of Krsna. So our names serve this purpose, always reminding us of Krsna. But our ultimate position, our destination, it may be anywhere in the spiritual kingdom with some form of Krsna. It's not necessarily identical with the name.
Prabhupada: No, he is not identical. But the name is identical. But we are dasa.
Revati-nandana: That's right. Just like my name is Revati-nandana dasa. So that is a name of Balarama.
Revati-nandana: Oh, yes. That is clear. His question is "Does that mean that when I'm in the spiritual sky I'm going to be a servant of Balarama directly?"
Prabhupada: Yes. That's it.
Revati-nandana: But once you told me that... I asked you if we were all devotees of Radha and Krsna. You said, "Well, we might also be devotees of Laksmi-Narayana, or Sita-Rama..."
Revati-nandana: Yes. But does that mean that definitely my spirit soul, if I do become Krsna conscious, it will go to Krsnaloka and be associated with Balarama?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Prabhupada: Balarama's expansion is Vaikuntha planet.
Devotee: What does the name Vaisnavi mean?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavi?
Devotee: Yes. You gave my daughter the name Vaisnavi.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Pradyumna: It is...
Prabhupada: "Associated with Vaisnava."
Prabhupada: Yes. You do not like? (laughter) Yes. So let your daughter become a Durga. Why you are afraid of? So now no more talking. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/1/1/2/london/august/18/1971 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.2 -- London, August 17, 1971 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.2 -- Caracas, February 23, 1975
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