Prabhupada: You have all got this experience. This is the only way. I started this movement on this determination, that they have nothing to give, simply by propaganda they are exacting so many people and befooling them. And I'll give them prasada, nice chanting, and they will not come? They must come. This was my determination. And I began with this. So this is the only way. Give them chance "No talk, please come. Chant and dance with us and take krsna-prasada and go home."

Kirtanananda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.

Prabhupada: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpana-marjanam. When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Krsna movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on-in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brahmanas, sages, saintly persons-no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?

Kirtanananda: June or July.

Prabhupada: Yes, June or July, yes, June. Then Hayagriva and Kirtanananda Maharaja, they came first. Before that, Mukunda came.

Hari-sauri: He's the oldest devotee? Mukunda? He's the oldest devotee?

Prabhupada: Yes. There were others, they have left. That Mr. Green.

Kirtanananda: Jagannatha dasa. I think you named him Jagannatha.

Prabhupada: And Ravindra-svarupa.

Kirtanananda: Carl, Carl.

Prabhupada: Carl, yes. He has left.