March 15, 1976, Mayapura
Prabhupada: "...and they are drunkards, and they are gundas, and they are creating trouble always." "Oh, then why not preach amongst them?" You see? This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching. Hard nut. To accept a hard nut and make it soft. [break] ...who was injured, but His decision to deliver these persons was executed. So why should we neglect China and Russia? China has good relationship now with America.
Hrdayananda: Ah, yes.
Prabhupada: So American gentlemen, doing, to do some business, I think there will be no difficulty.
Prabhupada: "We are not going to preach any Krsna consciousness. We are going to do some business of our books. That's all."
Gopala Krsna: He's a Spiritual Sky sales representative or looking into the possibilities of manufacturing incense in China.
Prabhupada: Yes. And we have got now documents how our books are important. So therefore we want to introduce. Like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because we have got so many...
Hrdayananda: Also you can tell them we're going to import things to America.
Hrdayananda: We could tell them we want to import incense from China to America. They will like that.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. You are going for export and import. We want to export books, import incense. On this plea, exchange.
Hrdayananda: That is how the Westerners originally entered China.
Prabhupada: Yes. And similarly, you have got already some inquiries from booksellers from Russia. On that plea—he is also sales organization—do something there. We have got philosophy, books, approved by learned circles. There is good chance. Our Trivikrama Maharaja reported. He went to that Formosa? Trivikrama?
Prabhupada: You went there.
Prabhupada: The report was the men there were very nice.
Trivikrama: Yes, they were.
Prabhupada: It is by propaganda that "Russians are bad," "Chinese are bad." No. Nowhere the people are bad. Simply the leaders are bad. The men, they are all the same everywhere, everywhere, human nature.
Pusta Krsna: After your meeting this morning with Gopala Krsna, he brought up this point that maybe it would be necessary to edit the books, because...
Pusta Krsna: It might be necessary to edit the books because in these countries when they start reading about God and how we say this government is rascal, rascal, this and that, that...
Prabhupada: It will be necessary when there will be criticism.
Gopala Krsna: Later on, but at the present moment they have shown interest in our books, so we'll give it the way it is.
Prabhupada: Yes. That we can correct. There is no.... [break] ...is very good boy.
Prabhupada: I met you in Mexico? No.
Dhrstadyumna: No, Srila Prabhupada, in Bombay last.
Dhrstadyumna: Two years ago in India I was here.
Tamala Krsna: There is one good point. His father is the president of the biggest liquor company in the world, and he has his offices, I think, in China also. He goes to China.
Dhrstadyumna: Hong Kong. He has been to trade fairs in Peking.
Prabhupada: Yes. So we are going for trade.
Devotee: That's big.
Prabhupada: Krsna captured him, (laughs) that "You come to China. You'll be successful." And when you will ask me, I shall go.
Prabhupada: Among the higher, to speak among the higher circle, philosophical, I'll go immediately.
Prabhupada: Jaya. [break] ...to change your dress like gentleman.
Prabhupada: Both of you become as gentlemen, American gentlemen. Kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya. Everyone. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. [break] We shall talk on the philosophy, or distribution of equal wealth.
Prabhupada: No, don't quote. Then they will drive you.
Prabhupada: You talk on reasonable ground, that "You are in favor of giving everyone the same facility. So what do you mean by 'everyone'? Why you are selecting only your countrymen? Why? 'Everyone' means every living being." So what is their answer?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, we agree to spread communism all over the world, and we'll give everyone equal rights.
Prabhupada: That's all right. So equal rights, why not to the animals?
Tamala Krsna: Well, they're not as important, they'll argue. They'll say that they're not as important. They're not so intelligent. They're just animals.
Prabhupada: Animals, but it appears to me that there are many men like animals, so why you are giving facility to them?
Prabhupada: So elevate them to the right point. Elevate them. You are elevating them only on the platform of eating, sleeping, mating. That is there in the animal. So you have to talk this philosophy. Our philosophy is that expanded—not only human being but animals also. Our philosophy is, if there is one lizard in your room, I should see that he is not starving. This is our philosophy. Not only human being but animals, even an insect. We supply little sugar in the holes of the ant. That is our philosophy. We take any living being is the..., has the same propensity for eating, sleeping. So your economic problem is that "Supply sufficient eating, sleeping." So why not these animals? We have to speak on that platform, that our philosophy is so perfect that we do not neglect even an ant. Make this philosophy. "Why you are limiting within a country or within the human society? Expand it."
Panca-dravida: Prabhupada, the Chinese don't neglect ants either. They eat them. The Chinese don't neglect the ants either. They eat everything.
Prabhupada: Then why do they protest when they are eaten by others?
Siddha-svarupa: The greatest difficulty in our preaching in Chinese will not be their receptiveness but our inability to see them as living beings rather than seeing them as Chinese. The Americans.... In a sense, anybody who is in the bodily conception at all is going to see them as Chinese rather than living beings, so we'll have a tendency to be prejudicial from the very beginning, think of them as very low. So...
Prabhupada: No, we don't think anyone as low.
Siddha-svarupa: Yes, so this will be difficult for the preachers, to see them not as Chinese but as actually Krsna's servants too.
Prabhupada: No, no, our devotees will not see like that. Our devotees will not see like that. [break] ...sama-darsinah. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. A pandita is sama-darsi. He does not see anyone as low or high. That is pandita. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gita, "One who sees Me in everything and everything in Me..." What is that verse?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That is wanted. Chinese Communist philosophy, does anybody know? What is that? What philosophy? They have got some philosophy.
Hrdayananda: They're emphasizing industrial development. Everyone, the entire country, is mobilized for developing industry, economic benefits, so everyone can enjoy nice material life under...
Prabhupada: And that is the philosophy of the Western countries.
Siddha-svarupa: Actually there is.... There is two factions in the Chinese schools now. One is saying to.... They're both materialistically based, but one is trying to stay on a position of self-sufficiency economically and not take from other countries or even trade, and the other school is to industrialize. And they're always fighting with their...
Prabhupada: Oh, there are two schools?
Siddha-svarupa: And the school who is more for self-sufficiency in agriculture, they also have brought out the.... In the last eight years or so they've brought to the surface more spiritual ideas.
Prabhupada: Hm. So there is a section who'll support.
Prabhupada: Who can support our movement.
Prabhupada: So we have to capture them.
Revatinandana: Actually that's Mao's...
Siddha-svarupa: If their main leader, Mao Tse Tung.... He's more of that school, but there are.... They call them revisionists. They say they're like the Russians, and that they're just.... They're always attacking them for wanting to copy the West. It's their same attack. They attack the Russians for becoming capitalists. They're puritan. They're trying to have pure communism. They have very great ideals, and the other school wants.... They think that they want to get in on the action of the trade and industrialization. But they are actually about equal in power. It's interesting. Right now, actually, it's very hard to get into China because there's a new feud that has come to the surface. There's top leaders that have been taken through the streets, denounced as being materialists, and they've taken their clothes from their wives' closets with mink coats and fancy clothes...
Prabhupada: No, first of all.... We shall first of all try to sell our books without any discussion. "As trade..., as trade representative, we have come. See our book." Go to the professors, go to the.... "We have got this support," like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Only for selling book.
Hrdayananda: Like Satsvarupa's men.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...they accept our books, that means gradually they are accepting our philosophy. Not immediately talk about philosophy. Just ordinary bookseller, you have come. (laughter)
Madhudvisa: Trojan horse.
Siddha-svarupa: In their schools right now, their colleges, is a center of controversy, education. The one school of thought who are called revisionists—they are compared to the Russians—they say that the schools should be centered almost entirely upon economic development and technology, and that philosophy, Communist philosophy, different.... In other words, different debates or thinking more, philosophically inclined people are rejected, so that now there is a fight between whether or not the schools will be centered simply for economic development or whether they're going to be centers of what they call revolutionary activities, thinking, trying to improve their Communist understanding and Communist ideology and more philosophically inclined. So those who are pushing for greater economic development at the expense of their Communist purity or their philosophical understanding, they are now being attacked.
Panca-dravida: As far as trade goes, actually Hong Kong belongs to China. It's on lease to the British government. The lease expires in twenty years or so.
Panca-dravida: Eight years. But the thing is, it's difficult for them to assume or take part in Hong Kong because it represents something like several million capitalists, which they have no use for in their country. For thirty years they've been training people in Communism. Their whole culture is centered around that Chinese language. Our books are in English, but their whole culture is...
Prabhupada: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.
Revatinandana: Another interesting thing about China is because they have such a huge population, in order to feed the population they've had to turn to production of agricultural products rather than meat.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the only way. That is the only way. If you want to make them happy.... That we are preaching in the Bhagavad-gita. Annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. Produce grains. Everyone will eat nicely, and they will be happy.
Revatinandana: Not only are they increasing grains, but because it's so much more economical to produce grains than to produce animals...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is natural.
Revatinandana: ...they are largely vegetarian.
Prabhupada: That is natural.
Revatinandana: It's a largely vegetarian country out of necessity, which may be good for preaching.
Prabhupada: Yes. So as soon as you find some hold, you can ask our Revatinandana Maharaja also to come there. [break] ...accept that we have come to sell books. To see the bookseller, to see the professors, to see.... That's all.
Tamala Krsna: My passport is already like a businessman. I already.... I was thinking to do this for a long time.
Prabhupada: And therefore it was burst out last night. Do it. [break]
Siddha-svarupa: ...the statement by the leader, they put out this manifesto or something. He said that the boys should not get married until twenty-five years old, and that they should remain celibate and that they...
Prabhupada: Chinese people?
Siddha-svarupa: Yes. And they're very strong on celibacy because he said that the.... If a person loses semen or if they masturbate or if they unnecessarily use their sexual energy, they'll go insane. Their brains will become very weak, and physically they'll become very weak.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is a fact.
Siddha-svarupa: In their philosophy, in their basic philosophy of life, the Chinese are very conservative, and they're called Puritan. They're described by the Western countries as the most Puritan country in the world.
Prabhupada: So I think this philosophy, no illicit sex, will be very much...
Prabhupada: And if you explain scientifically as you are explaining, that "This will spoil the brain, you cannot take nice things, so you must observe these rules..."
Siddha-svarupa: Part of their culture is basically.... It's deeply steeped in what's called Taoism, and it's.... An important part of that is retaining the semen for mental power. [break]
Prabhupada: So give them attention, yes, even at the..., as far as possible. Jaya.
Tamala Krsna: It may be possible for Dhrstadyumna's father to employ himself and myself in that business. Then I can go...
Prabhupada: Very easily.
Tamala Krsna: ...as their sales representative and at the same time be a representative for books...
Siddha-svarupa: The Chinese are very afraid of the Russians, and they are afraid of the Russians in India. They are afraid of Russian-style communism in India, and Russians having bases.
Siddha-svarupa: A way of preaching is that this Krsna consciousness and Vedic communism is the only thing in India that would ultimately defeat the Russian-style communism. Then they would very much appreciate it. If they saw that India would go communist, then they'd rather have it Vedic communist than Russian communist. Their theory is that everybody must go communist for people to be, feel satisfied. [break]
Madhudvisa: That's their feeling.
Prabhupada: Oh. (Bengali) [break] ...be print in a booklet, that will help us.
Prabhupada: Ha. So immediately...
Prabhupada: No, India.
Prabhupada: What is the wrong in India?
Gopala Krsna: [break] ...reviews from big, big people in Delhi, that will be very helpful in Russia. Like the head of the Lok Sabha Research Library is giving a review on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and other Sanskrit scholars have also been approached, and they've all agreed to give reviews.
Prabhupada: Take these reviews. You print.
Prabhupada: Print those.
Tamala Krsna: One of our men in our party did this. Before he even joined the movement, he had already done this for college.
Dhrstadyumna: Yes. We went to the college, and we found this boy. He had done this for his class. We said, "Now you come with us."
Tamala Krsna: "And be a devotee." Just by reading your books, without ever meeting any devo..., just by reading a book he understood how to do this.
Prabhupada: It is very nice.
Dhrstadyumna: Srila Prabhupada, he made Lord Caitanya's...
Prabhupada: Oh. Very nice. (looking at photos) What is this?
Tamala Krsna: This is inside our bus, one of our buses. This is the bus. Inside, kirtana, Deities from that bus. Brahma dasa, he is in charge. He is the leader of the bus. They're having kirtana inside the bus. This is another bus. Adi-kesava. These are Deities in his bus.
Prabhupada: Who is this gentleman? Police?
Tamala Krsna: This man? He's a military man. This is one of our airport distributors, distributing books. Here is the bus construction. You can see how they're building the buses. That's our head office in-charge, Kesava-bharati.
Prabhupada: Where the head of office? It should...
Tamala Krsna: Now it's in Phoenix, but it may be shifted soon to New York. Airport distribution. This is the installation of all the Deities you were attending in Chicago. That was a big ceremony.
Prabhupada: Oh. Chicago? Did I install? No.
Tamala Krsna: ...when the ceremony was performed. Here is some of our vans and men, Visnujana and Radha-Damodara. Here's the grandfather of airport book distribution, Tripurari Maharaja, dressed as a karmi to distribute in his distribution.... You can't tell, but he's wearing a wig. That's Tripurari there. That's how he looks when he's in the airport. He never misses.
Tamala Krsna: Here's Tripurari giving a class. Here's a priest buying a Bhagavad-gita. Gurudasa Maharaja preaching on campus. Dhrstadyumna leading a kirtana. Here's a television show. That was that television show.
Tamala Krsna: And this is Kavicandra Prabhu. He's the leader of another bus. These are his Deities, and that is his bus and his men.
Revatinandana: [break] ...is that they are very interested in health, exercise, dancing, like that. They have huge, mass swoopings of...
Prabhupada: So introduce this dancing as health exercise dancing.
Revatinandana: They dance very gracefully. If we dance gracefully, instead of going like this, if we dance like this, they'll actually appreciate, because they have huge groups together, thousands and thousands, all dancing in unison.
Prabhupada: So why don't you take him also?
Revatinandana: No, I think it will be a while before it will be at that stage. At first it will be liquor company representatives.
Prabhupada: [break] ...you have come?
Madhudvisa: Wherefrom you have come?