June 14, 1976, Detroit
Prabhupada: ...point out material development of civilization is artificial. It is not meant for that.
Prabhupada: India has been frustrated.
Pusta Krsna: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, you mention in the First Canto how it was predicted that certain different peoples, they would conquer India. This was predicted in Srimad-Bhagavatam. So these troubles they were foreseeing?
Pusta Krsna: The troubles that India is going through today, they were foreseeing over five thousand years ago, that the Muslims would invade, the Turks?
Prabhupada: Yes. The Englishman would invade. That is also...
Prabhupada: In the Twelfth Canto.
Devotee (1): I think Candragupta's name is also.... The last emperor of India. [break] ...fighting between the demons and the demigods, the demons brought mountain and it was in fire, the jungle, and it was split by dynamite, and all the stones fell down on the enemies. Where is that war plan? Bring the mountain on the head of the enemies and split it by dynamite, and it will.... [break] This information is there, that dynamite was there, and it was used for breaking mountain. Fighting was taking place. Not in this planet, upper planet.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: Sometimes. When there is fighting, both the parties will have chance to win. What is this? [break]
Devotee (1): ...degraded activity in the public parks. Fighting and intoxications and all kinds of nonsense. Just like animals. [break]
Devotee (2): And there were so many people that we decided that next weekend we'll come and distribute magazines and incense.
Makhanlal: In the Bhagavad-gita, Eighteenth Chapter, 54th verse, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54], it says that the person in brahma-bhutah realization at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. If the devotee is situated on the platform of the brahma-bhutah, but he may not necessarily see everything as Brahman, does that mean that his realization is by intelligence, and by his activity, or what does that mean?
Prabhupada: Realization of spiritual identification.
Makhanlal: Realization of spiritual life?
Makhanlal: Identity? [break] Brahman realization for the devotee in the beginning is just that he realizes his constitutional position as servant of Krsna?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is next. First of all, that "I am not this body." That is Brahman realization.
Makhanlal: So we may only be partially situated in that realization in our present level of devotional service.
Prabhupada: You realize or not realize, if you remain on the platform, that is same. [break] ...in Krsna's service, that is brahma-bhutah stage. [break]
Makhanlal: ...says that such a person never laments nor desires anything. So...
Prabhupada: Yes. If you realize that you are servant of Krsna, where is lamentation?
Makhanlal: Due to maya's influence, a devotee may sometimes materially lament.
Prabhupada: That you have to struggle. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. That is called tapasya. But if you stick to devotional service, maya will not be able to touch you.
Makhanlal: The maya that harasses the devotee is just mental concoction, then? He should concentrate on just serving?
Prabhupada: Maya's harassing, that means you are not in devotional service. It is not concoction; it is fact.
Devotee (1): (indistinct) We're having a lot of trouble distributing books in the airports now.
Devotee (1): It just seems legal problems. People don't like us there.
Madhavananda: People are opposing more. As our movement grows more and more, people want to check.
Devotee (1): ...trying to get it open in the terminals, and there's a possibility of maybe getting forty devotees inside the airport to distribute your books.
Prabhupada: So, that is favorable. [break]
Dhrstadyumna: ...so powerful, Srila Prabhupada, that all over the country young men are running away from home. We have one fifteen-year-old boy, he left everything after getting a book in a parking lot. Another boy is a sculptor, an artist. He's also runaway, seventeen years old. Just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, once he was attracted by Lord Caitanya's movement, nothing could keep him at home. So all the young men of America, as they read your books, will come and join us.
Prabhupada: Our books are prescribed as textbook in Hamburg University.
Prabhupada: East Berlin. As Sanskrit text.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada? When we're distributing on this program, we go to very small towns where people are not very much exposed to the degradedness of the big cities, and we're having great success with the people because they are a little more innocent. But we're having a problem with this other group that goes around, and they do sankirtana just like us, but for maya. And then when we go in the parking...
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupada: Then, that is not possible. (laughter)
Dhrstadyumna: They'll not last.
Devotee (1): But Srila Prabhupada, they mistake us. When we go up and approach them with our books, they think, "Oh, you are this rascal." They know he's a cheater. And it's causing a lot of difficulty with our distribution. I was just wondering what we can do about it.
Satsvarupa: This Moon group?
Devotee: Moon, yes. Interfering with some...
Madhavananda: Preaching is never easy.
Satsvarupa: Prabhupada said on one tape that.... Somebody said it was difficulty. He said, "When there's fighting, you can't expect it to be easy." [break]
Makhanlal: There are many different levels of pure devotional service?
Prabhupada: Pure devotional service is one. So long you are not on the pure platform, there are many. [break]
Makhanlal: ...between the neophyte devotee who is following the principles.
Prabhupada: Neophyte devotee is not on the topmost platform. He's learning. (loud foghorn blowing in background)
Makhanlal: So a neophyte devotee who's following the principles of sadhana-bhakti is still considered pure devotee?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Makhanlal: So at different levels of advancement of pure devotional service.
Satsvarupa: Prabhupada once gave the example of a mango, that when the mango is raw, it's still a mango. Then it becomes ripe—also a mango. So pure devotional service is different when we begin.
Prabhupada: So raw condition and ripe condition is not the same. The mango is the same.
Devotee (1): The captain of that boat must know that you're here on the island today, because those whistles that he just blew were salutes. It's a master salute from the best man to the best man. He must know that you are here.
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Makhanlal: In the Sixth Canto of the Bhagavatam you made a statement that if a devotee chants the holy name even once inoffensively, this protects him eternally. Is it possible for a devotee...
Prabhupada: Why you take advantage of chants one only? Why not sixteen? Opportunist. (laughter) Not devotee.
Makhanlal: If one has even a small amount...
Prabhupada: This material calculation is not made by a devotee. When one is devotee, he'll chant more and more. He'll aspire, "If I could get millions of tongues and trillions of ear, then I could finish. That is devotee. And one is thinking how to finish it by chanting once, he's not devotee. That is neophyte stage. Therefore the regulation is you must chant sixteen rounds at least. Because he'll simply try to avoid it by his so-called intelligence.
Makhanlal: It's possible for even a neophyte to chant offenselessly?
Prabhupada: Not possible, but he has to do it. This is offense, to think that "I have chanted once; my all sinful activities are now neutralized." This is offense. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. This is the offense. [break]
Makhanlal: Chanting, following the orders of the spiritual master...
Prabhupada: That's all right. No calculation.
Makhanlal: Is that considered offenseless chanting?
Prabhupada: Hmm? Yes. You follow strictly the instructions. If you commit offense, how it is offenseless?
Makhanlal: It's considered offenseless if, chanting, if one follows the orders of the spiritual master carefully?
Prabhupada: There may be offense. You should go on chanting. That will be adjusted as you advance in chanting. Harer nama harer nama, harer nama eva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Simply go on chanting. We shall see later on what is offense and not offense. (laughter) Chanting Hare Krsna mantra, not for any profit. But go on serving Him. That's all. Material calculation, "Now, this much I have profited..." [break] .... there is no animal?
Devotee (1): This jungle?
Prabhupada: There are some deers.
Ambarisa: Yes. Yes. I just saw a raccoon just now when I was getting the car. There are some in there.
Prabhupada: There is no monkey?
Ambarisa: (laughter) No. [break]
Satsvarupa: No monkey in the United States. [break] "Nature Center" it says.
Satsvarupa: You know what that is, Ambarisa?
Ambarisa: No, I don't know. I have no idea. [break]
Hari-sauri: It's a bit odd. They're busy building new attractions for the park, but they can't even keep the place clean. Everything is completely dirty and run down. No one will want to come anyway. They do that, though. They have a certain amount of things that they construct new so that the people will be thinking, "Oh, our taxes have been spent for our benefit like this." It's to make a show. [break]
Prabhupada: ...is Canada?
Ambarisa: No, this side over here.
Devotee (1): Way over there.
Prabhupada: What is this?
Satsvarupa: Detroit Yacht Club. Boat owners. [break] ...by some Catholic monks who were keeping some drug rehabilitation. They were leasing it from us. We still have a lease to the owner. So they are subleasing it. [break]
Prabhupada: ...to stop drug habit?
Satsvarupa: Yes. They have.... People who are addicted, they come and live there voluntarily and say "I'd like to try to stop." They call it "half-way house," because they are half still addicted, but they're trying to stop. So maybe six of such addicts are living...
Prabhupada: Only six.
Satsvarupa: Yes, not many. Here's the place, right here. And some monks live there, and somehow or other they try to get them to stop.
Prabhupada: Which year I came first? Bhagavan was in charge.
Ambarisa: I think it was six years ago from last year. So that would be '69.
Prabhupada: At that time I'll see, here is the signboard "For Sale."
Satsvarupa: Same one.
Prabhupada: No one is purchasing. Why? Suggested Bhagavan that "Why don't you purchase this land?" I see the same signboard is still going on (indistinct).
Ambarisa: Nobody wants to buy property on this street. It's very dangerous and rundown.
Prabhupada: Similarly, in that quarter where we have got our temple, the same position. Therefore we got cheap. (laughs) Otherwise, it is very costly building.
Satsvarupa: We did not even want to take you down there last year to see it. We thought it is out of the question. And you said, "There's nothing to be afraid of. Just hold kirtana there."
Prabhupada: Yes. People are coming. Yesterday many gentlemen. Gradually you purchase that side land.
Madhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, we had so many people yesterday. We had about two hundred people in the temple room and three hundred people outside waiting in line for prasada.
Satsvarupa: They were all wandering around the grounds. It was very pleasant. So many people taking here and there, preaching.
Prabhupada: That house is exactly suitable for our purpose in every way. It was Krsna's desire.
Madhavananda: I was thinking, Srila Prabhupada, it would be nice to have dioramas.
Prabhupada: First of all, give some signboard.
Prabhupada: Then dioramas.
Madhavananda: All right. (end)