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August 14, 1976, Bombay
Prabhupada: That roof is the fifth story?
Prabhupada: Sixth. So we are finishing fifth only?
Prabhupada: Only fifth, up floors?
Gopala Krsna: Yes, you can't go more than that. This is near the airport. Now they've introduced a new law that you can't go even below this. What we did is the new law has just come into effect, and so we did the slabs in the night.
Gopala Krsna: There's a new law which reduces the height even further. You can't have any big buildings in Bombay now.
Gopala Krsna: I don't know the reason, but apparently Indira Gandhi doesn't like big buildings. So actually according to the new law we have already built more than what the legal limit is. So what we did...
Prabhupada: No, we have got some assetship(?) for the road? We have left over? Where is Saurabha?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...quite nice place for walking. Why it is drying? The leaf?
Gopala Krsna: When it is built it will be I think just like Vrndavana. Many people think that the temple is these two towers. They think that the actual temple are these towers.
Prabhupada: Yes, this is included in the... [break]
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Gopala Krsna: This machine? It's a water cooler. Someone donated it to us about two, three years ago.
Prabhupada: It acts?
Prabhupada: We have no tap water here?
Gopala Krsna: We have tap water, but it's not drinking water. I mean it needs to be boiled. In Delhi you can drink the tap water, they say it's okay, but in Bombay it's very risky to drink tap water. Especially in monsoon. [break] ...famous actress and singer called Shri Lakshna-pandit. She's one of our devotee's sister-in-law also. She has some devotion. So she is coming to sing bhajanas tomorrow in the pandal. Is that okay? She's very famous.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: Before Deity one can do. Before Deity one can show devotional activities, but not otherwise. Otherwise it will be sense enjoyment.
Prabhupada: No, before Deity everything.
Prabhupada: (counting floors) One, two, three, four, five, six? No?
Harikesa: One, two, three, four, five, six. From the ground floor it's twice as high.
Prabhupada: We are, some space is due to us on account of giving up the road?
Saurabha: That is already calculated. That is given to us already.
Saurabha: F.S.I. (effasai?)
Saurabha: That we have already. We have used that in that building. We have used it in the building that is coming up here.
Prabhupada: Oh. It is already. You have submitted the plan?
Prabhupada: They have sanctioned?
Prabhupada: [break] ...so nice walking this route.
Acyutananda: Good air.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Acyutananda: We're invited to do kirtana to inaugurate a Bhagavata-saptaha and the Dvaraka Sankaracarya will be present.
Acyutananda: It's Sumati Morarji's...
Acyutananda: I don't know what the place is.
Prabhupada: No, no, we have no objection with Vallabha.
Acyutananda: They're sending two cars.
Prabhupada: Oh. When?
Acyutananda: This morning. So I wanted to invite him to come and see the temple and Your Divine Grace...
Prabhupada: About that Vallabhacarya, she wrote me letter, I've replied it. I replied it.
Acyutananda: Yes, Giriraja told me. I never mention those...
Prabhupada: No, don't mention it.
Acyutananda: Because they don't listen. Their history is that Vallabhacarya had the dream and discovered Govardhana and Sri Nathaji, Gopala Deity, and there was no Madhavendra Puri.
Prabhupada: Accha? But in the court it has been established. One lawyer in Delhi, he told me that this Deity belongs to the Gaudiya-sampradaya. In the court it has...
Acyutananda: How did it come to them?
Prabhupada: That Madhavendra Puri or somebody delivered to Vallabhacarya. Madhavendra Puri is not possible, somebody else. [break] Dvaraka Sankaracarya, he's a Mayavadi, and he'll give Bhagavata?
Acyutananda: No, he's just going to give blessings to the... He's presiding, I guess. [break]
Prabhupada: That is also complete like this?
Saurabha: Yes. The other side we are making one special room for you on the roof. So...
Prabhupada: One special room like this? No.
Saurabha: That is the lift room. But next to that, the similar room, the same size. It is not done. Because that we have to do later on. We're not allowed to do that now. There's a new law passed in Bombay that no one can build higher than six stories, nowhere in Bombay. So we had to rush for this, otherwise they would have stopped us.
Prabhupada: So why you are not rushing?
Saurabha: No, this is finished. We have reached the highest. That point is the highest. It's only for the slab. Afterwards, they don't mind. [break]
Prabhupada: ...from this light.
Prabhupada: There was a seat? Where is gone, that seat?
Prabhupada: ...rainy season these leaves should have been very green, but it is not green. Huh?
Saurabha: It's also the sea wind that kills a lot of trees. Not so much here, but if one goes down to the sea, all trees they have no leaves. There's some type of salt or something in the air that destroys plants. Here it's all right, but close to the sea it's all... That must affect them. [break]
Prabhupada: ...saptaha, it is not authorized.
Acyutananda: No. But in some editions of Bhagavatam they have a Bhagavata-mahatmyam, and there's a story about bhakti and jnana and vairagya and Narada Muni.
Prabhupada: That no acarya has mentioned.
Acyutananda: They say how this is the instructions for how Bhagavata should be read in seven days up to this canto.
Gopala Krsna: This lady? That man there? He's our accountant, Mr. Krishna. He lives with us full time. He's doing very good service.
Vasughosa: About two months ago in Hyderabad they had a very big Bhagavata-saptaha. One thousand and eight brahmanas chanting Bhagavatam for seven days, and it was presided over by a big Vaisnava sannyasi, Ramanuja-sampradaya. And all the local Marwaris, they gave lakhs of rupees for prasadam and so many things.
Vasughosa: No, they haven't given anything to our temple, but for this, the same people, some of them, most of them refused even to become members. One man who refused me to become a member, he gave fifty thousand rupees for prasadam.
Prabhupada: Why they refused us or help us?
Prabhupada: Because it is...
Acyutananda: They are the "Hindus." We are the foreigners.
Yasomatinandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat, one Bhagavata-hrdaya-pitha.(?) Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmasalas and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity, he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...
Prabhupada: Sixty seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?
Yasomatinandana: No. He has got land and he has got some buildings, but now he has no funds to go further. And there also no local people give. All he collected in London and Africa from the Gujaratis. [break] ...in becoming trustees and managing the things, but they will not give any money.
Prabhupada: So bring some sitting place.
Vasughosa: Every brahmana got 116 rupees, and they brought him a cadara and they paid for prasada. Lakhs of people came from all over central India, Andhra Pradesh, thousands and thousands. They paid for prasadam. Whole pandal, huge pandal, they went to this exhibition ground. They gave, the rest of the money went to the Ramanuja Swami.
Vasughosa: Jeer Swami. Shriman Narayana Jeer.
Yasomatinandana: That Donghari is very famous in Gujarat, so now he has mostly become famous all over India.
Prabhupada: Yes. From tulasi. It was made in Honolulu. In Honolulu tulasi plants are very luxurious. Hyderabad local people, they are not sympathetic with our temple? Huh? Not sympathetic?
Acyutananda: But when their caste guru comes they may come out, because that's a big thing. Narayana Jeer, Ramanuja-sampradaya, so Ramanujas have to pay their respects to their own acarya. The temple is being built. And the location of Hyderabad is such that there are so many guesthouses, because it's near the station, Nampally Station. There are many guesthouses. So from all over India people who stop in Hyderabad, they come to the temple. So from all over Andhra we got invitations from people who had come to the temple. (plane going over)
Acyutananda: Annapurna Hotel, so many guesthouses.
Prabhupada: They visit our temple?
Vasughosa: All those brahmanas that came for the yajna, and everybody, after the yajna ended at about six-thirty, they immediately came to the temple, our temple, afterwards. Everybody knew. We distributed thousands of books there. It was very good book distribution. We sold in one day, you know, we were selling two thousand rupees a day worth of books. Everybody that came there was very pious.
Prabhupada: We took advantage.
Vasughosa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Unless one is pious how he can...
Vasughosa: Yes, we went there every day and we had all day book distribution and kirtana. Actually some of the Marwaris were good friends of ours, so we wanted to get..., they announced that we were there and we were selling books over the loudspeaker system. Very good. They gave us..., we had a good place for book distribution.
Gopala Krsna: In Bombay also Shrimati Morarji had a big program in her house recently. There were huge crowds and our devotees went there to distribute books afterwards.
Yasomatinandana: They didn't like it, though. Ghaja, Ghaja came, from Sri Nathaji, has come to her house.
Prabhupada: What is the idea, Ghaja(?) Due to her influence people came. Not for the Ghaja(?). She is influential and something is being done, everyone knows that.
Acyutananda: In Bangalore we went to another Ramanuja sannyasi's asrama, and he invited us to see an initiation, and they burned the sankha-cakra on the shoulders, by fire, branded. That means they're initiated.
Devotee: It's all right. (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupada: Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. Bhavausadhi [SB 10.1.4]. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Highest medicine.
Prabhupada: Bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. And it is very pleasing to the ear and the heart. Mana, srotra, srotra means...
Dr. Patel: Ears and mind.
Prabhupada: Ears and mind. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. This chanting is properly done by a person who has fully satisfied his material desires, satiated, no more. Nivrtta-tarsaih. Trsna. Nivrtta. No more material desire. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhi [SB 10.1.4], and it is the medicine for this bhava-roga. Bhava, punar bhava. Once take your birth, then die, then punar bhava. So this is bhava-roga. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. (aside:) Just spread it here. According to Vedic system, if one has no sitting place, he can offer a straw. They should offer a straw, "Sir, I have no sitting place, kindly accept this straw." And one glass of water. This should be offered to any guest. This is Vedic system. Everyone should be received properly, even if he's enemy. Grhe satrum api praptam visvastam akutobhayam. So
puman virajyeta vina pasughnat
Except pasughna, nobody can be aloof from this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra. It is bhavausadhi. This is good place for walking also.
Dr. Patel(?): Yes. Shall we call that Pandit Ayur-Veda acarya of India for you? If you don't believe in our medicine?
Prabhupada: (laughs) No, no.
Dr. Patel: What do you say? After all, this is our...
Prabhupada: No medicine is...
Dr. Patel: No, what I mean to say, that ksetra and ksetrajna are depend on each other. If there is no ksetra, there will be no ksetrajna to stay.
Prabhupada: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: So you have got to look after that ksetra, or what the ksetrajna will be happy there to live there? I think I am not wrong.
Dr. Patel: Permanent, but changing ksetra may be kept till the ksetrajna is there, presiding over it.
Prabhupada: No, it is not.
Indian: What is this (Hindi)?
Dr. Patel: Sagrada(?) is meant for only cough. (Hindi) Is Ayur-Vedic, very good medicine.
Indian: Where can we get some?
Dr. Patel: You can grow them here in this garden.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is very easy.
Indian: Where can I buy it?
Dr. Patel: You can buy it from the market, serabasagra.(?) Syrup, it is in the form of paste. Leaves are also paste make a decoction out of it. Asaka(?) is recognized by the Western medicine also. Americans are importing it.
Prabhupada: It was introduced by Dr. Bose.
Dr. Patel: Bose, yes.
Prabhupada: He introduced so many Indian drugs in the...
Dr. Patel: They have in Bengal this Standard Pharmaceuticals of Bengal, been able to isolate penicillin from cow dung, and they have a big plant in Calcutta producing penicillin from cow dung. It's stated, you know, how cow dung was considered sacred. Perhaps we did not know that, but by experience.
Prabhupada: Before this, one Monmohan Gosh, Dr. Monmohan Gosh, he was pathologist in medical college. He proved the antiseptic properties of gobara. He was Dr. Gosh's friend. So he was working in his laboratory also. I know. Long ago.
Dr. Patel: And in gomutra, sir, there are so many hormones coming, and a big sample of hormones which can be resynthesized as human hormones. That is why gomutra is being drunk.
Prabhupada: Gomutra is good medicine for liver disease. If you drink urine of...
Dr. Patel: Yes, it is proved scientifically so many hormones and by-products and hormones which can be resynthesized into human hormones, modern science.
Dr. Patel: That's right, gomutra is considered sacred by we people that we put a drop in the newly born child's mouth.
Dr. Patel: Milk and honey. Five ingredients, gomutra is one of the five things. Honey, milk...
Prabhupada: No, that is panca-amrta. Panca-gavya a little different. Gobara, urine, milk, yogurt, and ghee. This is panca-gavya, pertaining to the cow. And that honey, that is panca-amrta.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I have a question. Can I ask you?
Dr. Patel: Now then, Arjuna was so advised that he should fight out. So in that case, I mean we all consider he was right to follow Krsna advice? Then if a man is overtaken by disease and if he fights out that...
Prabhupada: No, no, I don't say that, that he should not fight. It is my personal... Not that one should not take care of the body or one should not eat medicine, that is not. I like this, let me do without medicine. That is my personal... It is...
Dr. Patel: What is medicine? Any herb is a medicine, even food is a medicine.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, I don't decry medicine. That is not my business.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't say decry. But you don't want to take advantage of medicine.
Prabhupada: Medicine. Just like a type of vairagya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal, I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brahmana. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way."(?) So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Dr. Patel: He just died.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Brahmacaryena. Tapasya, one of the items is anahara. Anahara. As far as possible not to eat. That is one of the items of tapasya.
Vasughosa: You know this acarya, Vinoba Bhave, he's going on a fast until death starting in September to end cow slaughter in India.
Prabhupada: Whole Europe, there is no cloud, no rain.
Dr. Patel: There's lot of rain here.
Prabhupada: Fortunate vrsti. Still India fortunate. I'm coming from London, Paris, and Tehran. All fields yellow. And Europe, so much scorching heat and sunshine, I never seen. Especially in London. This time I saw everything has become yellow. Greenness gone.
Dr. Patel: The non-monsoon countries can produce more food than the monsoon countries. The monsoon comes only three months in a year. Those people get rain all year 'round, they can grow better crops. This is how so many parts of North America and Europe, they can have sufficient crops all the year. We can't have it here.
Prabhupada: No, there is scarcity of water also. They are killing the animal premature. They cannot do it. It has come to this point.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) in favor of vegetarians. We are fools raising fodder and this thing and again raising animals on that and feeding on that. Why can't we directly feed on poor animals? I think the human race will survive more that way than by eating animals, but economically it is more sound.
Prabhupada: Certainly. In the Bhagavad-gita it is recommended, annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. Krsna never said mamsad bhavanti bhutani. Krsna never said. This is artificial. In the lower stage of human civilization when they cannot produce food they do not know how to do it, so the animals are killed. What can they do? But actual food is anna, food grains. Even for the animals. Annad bhavanti bhutani. Yajnad bhavati bhu... So there is no yajna. There is no yajna. So this sankirtana-yajna is the only yajna in Kali-yuga. So if they perform, everything is all right. There will be cloud, there will be rain.
Prabhupada: Yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah [SB 11.5.32]. In the Kali-yuga, the other yajnas are not possible. First of all, there is no yajnika-brahmana and paraphernalia, so many things. Perhaps if we perform yajna and pour ghee on it, immediately government arrest. Ghee can be produced immense. I have studied. Immensely, you can produce, by keeping cows. Krsna has recommended, go-raksya. Krsi-go-raksya. The go-raksya is essential. It is not that animal slaughter stopping, no. Krsna could have said pasu-raksya. No, Krsna has not said. Go-raksya. Those who are animal eaters, they can indulge in eating other insignificant animals.
Dr. Patel: I think go-raksya must be the backbone of the economy.
Prabhupada: No, health, brain, everything. Milk is miracle food. And we are practically experiencing in our farms that if the cows are protected nicely, they can supply immense milk. We are getting in our farms, extra milk. Everyone is eating so many preparations, sandesa, rasagulla, rabri. They are surprised. In their history they have not eaten all these things.
Dr. Patel: They are eating the milk-producing animal so milk will not...
Prabhupada: No, they advertise milk is bad.
Dr. Patel: Who?
Prabhupada: These Europeans, Americans.
Dr. Patel: Really?
Prabhupada: Yes. "Don't eat milk." Do they not? And they cannot drink also. In Bengal there is a proverb, kule pete ghiya(?) (indistinct). If you supply preparation made of ghee to the dog, he cannot digest it.
Guest: (quotes proverb in Bengali)
Prabhupada: Ha! They cannot digest factually. They get, what is called? That disease?
Prabhupada: Jaundice. They cannot eat much milk product.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. Cow is the biggest factory to produce protein, first-class proteins for human beings. Instead of taking advantage of the products of the factory, they eat out the factory itself.
Prabhupada: So we see practically in our farm the cows give more milk than other farms.
Dr. Patel: The satisfaction of the animal.
Prabhupada: They are very satisfied. You have been in New Vrindaban with me? No, you were not. So the cows are so happy that... Just like in India. They are walking here and there.
Dr. Patel: They don't do anything. Now they have, they have (Hindi), brought some crossing and each cow, Jersey cows and Indian cows, they have crossed and they are producing more than thirty, forty liters of milk every day.
Prabhupada: One liter means?
Dr. Patel: Two pounds.
Prabhupada: So we have got cows, they are supplying more than hundred pounds.
Indian: This cost is three thousand rupees, one cow. Four thousand. (Hindi) pure cows five thousand rupees.
Dr. Patel: They have brought some Holland bulls and Jersey cows and then Indian bulls, and brought some genetic researchers brought out a new hybrid.
Indian: It is very good cow, very good. Giving thirty to forty liters per day.
Hari-sauri: Those cows we have in the Pennsylvania farm, the two best ones, they're the two best pedigree cows in the whole of America. They have their pedigree traced back two hundred and fifty years to when the first cows came to America. Purebreds.
Prabhupada: In our Philadelphia farm we are selling fifteen hundred dollars extra milk. Fifteen hundred dollars per month. So if cow is properly protected, it can supply immense milk.
Dr. Patel: It was Mr. Nehru, he said that we cannot prohibit cow slaughter. Therefore he made so many wrong things. [break] (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) This is maya. We are...
Dr. Patel: We are praying to end rebirths by krsna-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...
Prabhupada: That is perfect. Samsiddhim paramam gatah. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gita, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?
Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).
Prabhupada: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.
Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.
Prabhupada: It is not our, it is human society's.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.
Prabhupada: Because we have no, that catur-varna system. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. You have given up Krsna's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no ksatriya.
Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...
Prabhupada: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is sudra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," sudra will be on the power. So they can...
Prabhupada: Everyone is sudra. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. Who is going to become brahmana? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brahmana." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brahmana he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.
Dr. Patel: Mathematics?
Prabhupada: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.
Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing, nobody. And Sanskrit practically nil.
Prabhupada: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think "What is the use of speculation?"
Indian: At Kuruksetra, one Sanskrit university they are planning.
Prabhupada: Vedic university. So that is our plan. We have asked government to give us land.
Vasughosa: We had a big article in the Times of India about it.
Prabhupada: Provided government gives us land. [break] ...in Bombay. (Hindi) Palm trees, within the palm trees, such buildings will not have this advantage. I think in this quarter our, this land is the best. This Juhu and Birawallah(?) Scheme, this land is the best. Twenty-thousand square yards full of palm trees, and we have made this garden. This advantage is not available by everyone. They divided the property, this side five lakhs and the vacant side nine lakhs. Fourteen. So anyway, we took both the sides. Taking this side, five lakhs, now this one building is worth five lakhs. There are six buildings. Very high. And we have got six buildings.
Dr. Patel: I put up a foundation of my new house here, it has cost me only foundation sixty thousand. Only twenty-one square feet. Twenty-one hundred square feet. Foundation has cost (indistinct).
Prabhupada: No, it is very costly. (Hindi) So let us go down. (the remainder, meeting with Mrs. Birla and friends, is in Hindi with a little English.) (end)