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August 12, 1976, Tehran
Nava-yauvana: "First we must reach to your standard, then we can become interested in spiritual life." It's an envious position. On the material platform they are thinking, "You have gotten so much, now you can afford to practice this. We cannot afford such practice."
Prabhupada: Then it is a luxury, it is not necessary. Is it not?
Prabhupada: But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamela with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Krsna consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbhamela, so many saintly persons are coming. They will come by lakhs. Have you seen it? You have seen Kumbhamela? You have seen? That is the proof. Not only Kumbhamela. In Vrndavana, just like in our temple, recently it was jam-packed. Why they are coming to Vrndavana? Mostly they are coming from villages. Especially during this time at least twenty thousand, fifty thousand men are coming, daily. Still. We held Hare Krsna festivals in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras. As soon as it is advertised, you'll find fifteen thousand, twenty thousand men come. And if you hold for weeks, for weeks they will come. You have seen? They are not like Americans, rich. They are all poverty-stricken. To the general eyes they are poverty-stricken. Kumbhamela you'll see, Hardwar, in Vrndavana. Or even in big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, such festivals are held, people will come by thousands. It is training, culture. And this boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Krsna. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he'll be great saintly person. Then he'll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.
Hari-sauri: They got one of those movie projectors—the ones in the small suitcase? With all the films. We were just testing it. They were just testing it downstairs.
Atreya Rsi: We were planning to have..., to show one movie tonight for the guests, that new movie that is made about New Vrindaban. When our other guests arrive we will show it at about eight o'clock. Would you like also to see it again, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I have no objection. Where it will be shown?
Atreya Rsi: Anywhere, we can show it here if you like.
Hari-sauri: Those little boxes, they also, apart from showing on the screen, they project onto the wall as well if you want.
Nava-yauvana: Srila Prabhupada, this is Ali. He was living with us for about four months and chanting sixteen rounds. Then he was taken into the army.
Atreya Rsi: Little bit of army, little bit of maya.
Atreya Rsi: A little bit of army took him, plus a little bit of maya. He's a very sincere, nice boy.
Prabhupada: So. Let him go on chanting. Chanting cannot be checked, any position. So what is your inquiry further?
Atreya Rsi: What is your further inquiry?
Prabhupada: Our latest Vrndavana report is very encouraging. He has used the word "jam-packed," always people. They are selling good number of magazines, books, prasadam. Guesthouse is also filled up. Now we have festival going on nice. Hare Krsna. What is your further inquiry?
Shahrezad(?): I'm thinking to ask a question. (long pause) [break]
Atreya Rsi: There have been very few of them.
"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth."
Harikesa: "There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally, mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge." (Atreya Rsi translating in background)
Prabhupada: Atreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.
Harikesa: "The first six chapters of the Gita are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Krsna can only be known by persons who are in Krsna consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Krsna. Krsna is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramatma. The yogis and jnanis are confused in their attempts to understand Krsna, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Sripada Sankaracarya, has admitted in his Gita commentary that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Krsna as such, for it is very difficult to know Krsna, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."
Prabhupada: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Krsna, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.
Harikesa: "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.
It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually, the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually, according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Srila Rupa Gosvami writes in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu:
aikantiki harer bhaktir
'Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanisads, Puranas, Narada-pancaratra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.' It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramatma realized yogi to understand Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of mother Yasoda or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Krsna: muhyanti yat surayah, mam tu veda na kascana. 'No one knows Me as I am,' the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then sa mahatma sudurlabhah, 'Such a great soul is very rare.' Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Krsna as He is (tattvatah), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Krsna, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Krsna is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:
na bhaved grahyam indriyaih
sevonmukhe hi jihvadau
svayam eva sphuraty adah
'No one can understand Krsna as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.' (Padma Purana)"
Prabhupada: (loud chanting from mosques and singing in background) These words, aja, what is the meaning of this?
Atreya Rsi: Allah, "God is great, God is great, God is great." "God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any..."
Atreya Rsi: "...competitor to Him. I witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God, is the..."
Atreya Rsi: "...representative of God. I witness and accept Ali as Muhammad's representative."
Prabhupada: Who is Ali?
Atreya Rsi: Ali is representative of Muhammad. He is...
Pradyumna: Son of Muhammad.
Atreya Rsi: This azan is an invitation for namaz, glorification of God. He is...
Prabhupada: Inviting everyone, come.
Atreya Rsi: Inviting everyone to come and sing and glorify God.
Prabhupada: And glorify.
Atreya Rsi: This is said five times a day..., three times a day. "Come and be truthful, and remain fortunate, remain truthful, stick to the right path. Come and join in the best activity, which is praise of the Lord. The highest form of activity, which is praise of the Lord." This is azan.
Prabhupada: It is very good.
Atreya Rsi: Very nice. Nobody hears it.
yam brahma varunendra rudra marutah stunvanti divyaih stavair
vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah
dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yogino
yasyantam na viduh surasura-gana devaya tasmai namah
In Vedic prayer it is like this. Yasyantam na viduh surasura-ganah. Yasya antam, the glories of the Lord, unlimited. So nobody can go to the limit of His glorification, either the sura or asura, the demons or the demigods. Nobody can reach. But He's glorified by the demigods like, yam brahma, Brahma, Lord Brahma, Siva, Varuna, the predominating deity of air, fire, Lord Brahma. Everyone worships Him, yam brahma varunendra-rudra stunvanti divyaih stavaih, by glorified prayers. And gayanti yam sama-gah. Vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadaih—by Vedic hymns, by Upanisad, by Vedic literature. Gayanti yam sama-gah. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyantam na viduh surasura-gana devaya tasmai namah. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now "God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life," that they are not taking. Practically. That is the defect. And that is to be done. Athato brahma jijnasa. Brahma means the great. Brhavad brhanantvad iti brahma.(?) Brahma means the greatest. Now here we get the information God is great. So naturally one should be inquisitive to know how He is great. That is human life. Athato brahma jijnasa. Just like if I introduce, "Here is a gentleman, very rich." So naturally next inquiry will be, "How he is rich? What is the position that he is very rich?" These inquiries are natural. If I simply remain satisfied by hearing that he is rich, that is also good. You have got some respect. But if you know how he is rich, to what extent he is rich, then your respect will be increased.
Atreya Rsi: Your love also.
Prabhupada: Yes, if I understand that he is rich, I may consider, "Well, I have got one thousand dollars, so he may have one hundred thousand dollars," that's all. But if you understand that he has got millions and millions of dollars, then you'll appreciate, "Oh, so rich!" Then your regard for him will increase. That is not being done. Stereotyped, "God is great." How He is great, to what extent He is great, what is His greatness activities, if you know more and more, then your regard for God will increase. But that they are not doing. Simply officially, "God is great, God is great," finished. No jijnasa, no inquiry. Athato brahma jijnasa. One should be inquisitive. Jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who has become inquisitive of the uttamam, the most exalted subject matter, he requires a guru. Otherwise, who will answer his inquiries? Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh. If he's not jijnasuh, what is the need of guru? And where is the question of advancement? He must be jijnasuh. That is, people are not interested. Officially, go to church, go to mosque, go to temple and do something. Then drop it and go to your own business and do whatever you like. No discrimination. They're not serious. Not very serious. One who is serious, he'll inquire. Otherwise, the formula is all right, "God is great, there is no more greater than Him." But inquire, "How He is great?" (guests enter) Thank you. Jaya. Therefore society is required, association is required, to inquire. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah [SB 3.25.25]. There is need of association for discussing how God is great. That is needed-jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Unless one is inquisitive... Sharmaji, you can come here. So, that is the... Simply we should not remain satisfied to understand... That is not proper understanding, officially, "God is great." No. Try to inquire how great He is, why He is great. Then your regard for God, your devotion for God will increase. And because we do not inquire how God is great, therefore cheap gods are coming. Any rascal, he is repre... "I am God." Because we do not know actually what is God. But if you inquire about God, if you go through the sastra, as it is stated in the Brahma-samhita:
jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah
visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya: the breathing period. We have got idea, breathing period. Within second we are having two, three breathing. So within the breathing period of Maha-Visnu innumerable universes are coming out. This is greatness. How great is God, it is same idea, that within the breathing period innumerable universes are coming. We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah [Bs. 5.48]. That Maha-Visnu, yasya kala-visesa, part and plenary portion, govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. So when we speak all these things, they'll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we'll accept, "Here is God." This is the position. They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called kupa-manduka-nyaya, Dr. Frog's philosophy. Dr. Frog is within the well, three feet length and breadth. He's thinking, "This is the ultimate reservoir of water." And when he's informed there is Atlantic Ocean, he simply calculates, "All right, this is three feet. It may be six feet or it may be seven feet; all right, come on, ten feet." He's going like that. So God is not like that, within our calculation. In the Bhagavad-gita when Krsna was speaking about the vibhuti-yoga, He was speaking "I am this amongst this." Find out this vibhuti-yoga, Twelfth Chapter I think it is.
Harikesa: You want the last verse?
Prabhupada: No, one, where it is said, "I am this amongst this," and like that.
Harikesa: Just the English?
Harikesa: "I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. Of the Adityas I am Visnu, of lights I am the radiant sun, I am Marici of the Maruts, and among the stars I am the moon. Of the Vedas I am the Sama-veda; of the demigods I am Indra; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force, knowledge. Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva; of the Yaksas and Raksasas I am the lord of wealth (Kuvera); of the Vasus I am fire (Agni); and of the mountains I am Meru. Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Brhaspati, the lord of devotion. Of generals I am Skanda, the lord of war; and of bodies of water I am the ocean. Of the great sages I am Bhrgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names (japa), and of immovable things I am the Himalayas. Of all trees I am the holy fig tree, and amongst sages and demigods I am Narada. Of the singers of the gods (Gandharvas) I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. Of horses know Me to be Uccaihsrava, who rose out of the ocean, born of the elixir of immortality; of lordly elephants I am Airavata, and among men I am the monarch. Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi, givers of abundant milk. Of procreators I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vasuki, the chief. Of the celestial Naga snakes I am Ananta; of the aquatic deities I am Varuna. Of departed ancestors I am Aryama, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlada; among subduers I am time; among the beasts I am the lion; and among birds I am Garuda, the feathered carrier of Visnu. Of purifiers I am the wind; of the wielders of weapons I am Rama; of fishes I am the shark; and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges. Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the Self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compounds I am the dual word. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahma, whose manifold faces turn everywhere. I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience. Of hymns I am the Brhat-sama sung to the Lord Indra, and of poetry I am the Gayatri verse, sung daily by brahmanas. Of months I am November and December, and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong. Of the descendants of Vrsni I am Vasudeva, and of the Pandavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyasa, and among great thinkers I am Usana. Among punishments I am the rod of chastisement, and of those who seek victory, I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am wisdom. Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being—moving or unmoving—that can exist without Me. O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end of My divine manifestation. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences. Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring but from a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Prabhupada: That's it. This is greatness. So we should not simply be satisfied God is great. We must try to know how great He is. Then our God consciousness will be fixed up. It's all right?
Atreya Rsi: It's very beautiful.
Prabhupada: That people are not interested. Only officially chanting "God is great," that's all. These are the... You try to understand. Athato brahma jijnasa. This is the Vedanta-sutra. Go, inquire, be inquisitive. Jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One should be inquisitive. That is human life. And as soon as you become inquisitive, you become aware of God more and more, then your devotion increases. That is wanted.
Mr. Sahani: It is also said that you have a blind faith.
Prabhupada: Blind faith?
Mr. Sahani: You should have a faith in your God. But when you are inquisitive and you keep asking more and more and more, and...
Prabhupada: And who says that you keep blind faith? Who says?
Mr. Sahani: You should have faith, in God, should have faith.
Prabhupada: No, no. God, it is not blind faith. God is there, you have to accept. It is not blind.
Mr. Sahani: Means give up, give everything, surrender. You were talking day before yesterday, when we surrender that means we don't ask any question. So when we are inquisitive, then we ask more questions. How do we blend these two things?
Prabhupada: Blind, blind... God says that idam..., idam te jnanam akhyatam? Guhyam, guhyataram maya. Find out this.
Prabhupada: Idam te jnanam akhyatam. That verse, the other day we discussed? Yathecchasi tatha kuru? Where is that verse?
Pradyumna: Eighteenth chapter.
Prabhupada: So there is no question of blind faith. Here it is said that "I have explained to you the knowledge, confidential and most confidential. Now you consider about it, and after due consideration, then do whatever you like." But if you actually appreciate that there is God, here is Krsna, so whatever He is saying, it is all right. Sarvam etad 'rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. There is no harm even if you accept His word blindly, there is no harm. Otherwise, if you don't like to follow blindly, then consider what is instructed. And then whatever you like, you can do. Both ways are there. But if you have faith in God, "God is saying this, I must do it," that blind faith is as good. Although it is blind faith, it is the fact. Actually it is not blind faith. It is full faith in God. "God is speaking this; I'll accept it." Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That is the position of mahatma. Although such mahatmas are very rare, but one who accepts this fact that "God is speaking, so let me accept it without any consideration," that is as good as you accept. If gold is real, something real gold is offered to you, you accept it blindly or by checking it, the result is the same.
Mr. Sahani: But being inquisitive, again, and accepting it...
Prabhupada: No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man, he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says... He is the Supreme Person. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gita in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gita in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gita, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gita? Our preaching process is that you take Bhagavad-gita's instruction, that is perfect, and you'll be happy. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. Don't try to interpret it. Don't try to exact some meaning of your choice. No, that is not good. You take it as it is, you'll be benefited. Now if you take it, that it is spoken by Bhagavan svayam, then it is blind faith. It may be blind faith, but it is right. If you don't want, then Krsna says, iti te jnanam akhyatam guhyad guhyataram maya. Then you check it by your knowledge. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Both ways you can accept. Therefore we have to follow mahajana. Our knowledge is always scanty. So mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is the way. Tarkah apratistha. Tarka, by argument you'll never come to the conclusion. Srutayor vibhinnam. There are sastras for different persons, in different way they are presented. So they appear to be contradictory from one another. Not contradictory; at least, different from one another. So srutayor vibhinnam. Na casav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam. And a great philosopher is not a great philosopher if he does not present a different view. So therefore, the spiritual essence is very confidential. Dharmasya tattvam nihita guhyayam.(?)Therefore we have to follow the mahajana, great personality. That is the system, Vedic system. Guru-parampara. So that parampara is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, mahajana. Krsna said imam rajarsayo viduh. Rajarsi, mahajana. Mahajanas are explained also. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, he's mahajana; Bali Maharaja, mahajana; Brahma, mahajana; Narada, mahajana; Lord Siva, mahajana. Balir vaiyasakir vayam. Janaka Maharaja. So we have to follow them. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gita: evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. So there is no question of blind faith. If we follow the mahajana, example of the authorities, then our life is success. And guru means he is mahajana or follower of mahajana. So we have to select the mahajana process. According to our process, we follow the Brahma-sampradaya. And Brahma is one of the mahajanas. So Brahma has his disciplic succession, parampara. Brahma's disciple is Narada, Narada's disciple is Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva's disciple is Sukadeva Gosvami. In this way, we come to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then Caitanya Mahaprabhu's disciples, the six Gosvamis. Then others, then our Guru Maharaja. But the same thing we are speaking. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We are not manufacturing anything. That is the guru-parampara system. And if we follow strictly the line of mahajana, then there is no question of mistake. It is not blind faith. The superiors are following, and we are also following. Of course, there are books, there are everything. Sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratra-vidhi [Brs. 1.2.101]. Everything is there. So there is no question of being mistaken. The guide is there, the spiritual master is there. So there is no difficulty. Hare Krsna. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is the best way, follow the mahajana. Unfortunately, the mahajanas, without following mahajana, everyone is becoming mahajana in his own way. And that is being supported, that you manufacture your own way of spiritual progress, that is all right. That is dangerous. That is dangerous. And that is going on now. You can manufacture in your own way. And there are thousands who are coming, manufacturing their own way and spoiling the whole thing. That is the... Otherwise there is no difficulty, mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. We are therefore requesting people that don't be misled. Here is the greatest mahajana, Krsna Himself. You follow His instruction. It is very easy, there is no complication. This is our propaganda. But we don't make any compromise. Why shall I make compromise? If we are presenting the right thing, why shall I make compromise with something wrong? (Hindi) Baliye(?). If we are confident that we are presenting the right thing, why shall I make compromise with the wrong thing? (Hindi) No, you are intelligent. You can say if I am saying something wrong. Our culture has been spoiled by interpreting wrongly Krsna's words. Bharata-bhumi, punya-bhumi... still, thousands and millions are there. If there is Kumbhamela, millions of men are coming. Whenever we hold some Krsna consciousness meeting, daily, twenty thousand, fifteen thousand, thirty thousand men come. The spirit is there. Unfortunately, that is being artificially depressed. But it cannot be done. The punya-bhumi, bharata-bhumi, it will go on. But the unfortunate thing is that the clear thing is there and that is being misinterpreted and people are misled. That is the difficulty. [break] (Prabhupada converses in Hindi with guest)
Prabhupada: Bhagavad-gita, (Hindi), manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. So they are not interested. They are simply interested with eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Then? You were telling, that "First of all, let us become rich like Americans, then we shall talk of Krsna." When they go to preach about Krsna consciousness, the people say that "We shall think of Krsna later on." In India also they say. that "We are now poverty-stricken. Let us first of all become rich, and then we shall think of Krsna." They say like that. They are not interested. They think to become rich is more than understanding Krsna. That is the position. Therefore they are not interested. They say frankly that "We are not interested, why do you bother us?" they say. "Why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Krsna consciousness?" How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say, "All the sastras now throw away in the water."
Mrs. Patel: Do you think the deep-rooted Indian culture and religion will ever have a sort of a re-creation, or will it continue?
Prabhupada: Continue, because if you remain like animals, it will continue. If you become human being actually, then it will stop. But we want to continue as animals. That is the present position. The present civilization is very strong animal platform.
yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
Go-khara. Go-khara means animal. Go means cow, khara means ass. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Anyone who is thinking that "I am this body composed of kapha-pitta-vayu," sa eva go-kharah, "he's animal." Now analyze everyone. Everyone is thinking that "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that," all in the bodily concept of life. So if you continue this bodily concept of life, then you remain animal. And if you take Krsna's instruction, Krsna's first instruction is... Find out this verse:
This is pandita. Who does not think seriously about this body, he is pandita. And everyone is thinking seriously about this body, then who is pandita? All sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13], all cows and asses. If you keep yourselves as cows and asses, then where is civilization? What is that called? Hm? Find out this verse.
sri bhagavan uvaca
asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
"The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead."
Harikesa: "The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, 'You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned—one who knows what is body and what is soul—does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man."
Prabhupada: Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. Nanusocanti panditah. Then?
Harikesa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."
Prabhupada: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gita. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Krsna begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Krsna condemns: nanusocanti panditah. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharah, and he's posing himself as pandita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," aham brahmasmi. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Then he'll be happy. Na socati na kanksati. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharah. That is the defect. Tatha dehantara-praptih: [Bg. 2.13] this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Then what kind of pandita he is? Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20], nityam, na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehah: the sarira is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktah saririnah. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijnasuh. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as pandita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor. So we had some talks. So he does not believe transmigration of the soul, and he's a learned scholar. And everywhere you find that. The same atheistic philosophy.
So enjoy life. "I have no money." Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet. "Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee, and prepare nice preparation and enjoy." Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet, yavaj jivet sukham jivet. So long you live, enjoy. "I'll become a debtor. Then I'll act sinfully." Bhasmi bhutasya dehasya kutah punar agamano bhavet. Your body will be burnt and everything finished. This philosophy is going on. But Krsna says: na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20], the body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as pandita, philosopher, scientist. This is misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to go-kharah, he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.
na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum
durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah
andha yathandhair upaniyamanas
te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah
People are running like anything in the street, bahir-artha-maninah. They are thinking that this civilization, having nice roads and streets and number of cars and running here and there, this is... Bahir-artha-maninah. They do not know what is the goal of life. And if you ask the goal of life, "What is goal of life?" "After death everything is finished," that's all. "Let me enjoy." Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet.(?) Beg borrow, steal, bring money and enjoy. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. If by his activities he's going to be a lower animal next life, then what is the value of his so much business and activities? Therefore they do not believe in next life. Close the eyes. Never mind, where is the danger in front.
Mrs. Patel: It is convenient for them to.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gita informs, tatha dehantara-praptih. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehantara-praptih, Krsna is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. This dehantara-praptih, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehantara-praptih. So why they do not believe dehantara-praptih? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehantara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehantara-praptih. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Krsna is giving you this proof. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So if we accept authority of Krsna and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah ahankara-vimudhatma [Bg. 3.27]. Simply our false ahankara, egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakrti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law. Uru-damni baddhah. Uru means very hard, tight. Or uru means the thigh. And damni (means) by ropes, baddha. We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. Why you have got different bodies? Karanam guna-sango 'sya. As we have associated with the modes of material nature, we have got different types of bodies. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of forms? The forms are different, but within the form, the soul is one.
Atreya Rsi: Srila Prabhupada, maybe we could show that movie now?
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes. Which side you'll show? This side.
Dayananda: I want to show it (indistinct), Prabhupada, then everyone can sit here on the inside so you can see.
Prabhupada: All right. That's nice. What is that? Again?
Atreya Rsi: Yes. (movie dialogue—break) Would you like to see another, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not?
Harikesa: "As Brilliant As the Sun"? This film is really first class. (some discussion while setting up film) [break]
Prabhupada: This is due to American boy's cooperation.
Mr. Sahani: Yes, very nice. A great achievement.
Atreya Rsi: Due to Srila Prabhupada's mercy.
Prabhupada: And now we are trying Middle East with the cooperation of Iranians.
Mr. Sahani: I'm sure next year there'll be a film on Iran. When are you going to make the public announcement for this temple?
Atreya Rsi: It is announced. Srila Prabhupada's visit was sufficient.
Prabhupada: It is announced by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama. As many towns and villages are there on the surface of the globe, this movement will go on. Sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama. This will go on. It is already predicted by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Mr. Sahani: You've not seen today, the temple building has been taken over.
Atreya Rsi: Mr. Patel has donated over $20,000 for the purchase of that temple, Mr. and Mrs. Patel.
Prabhupada: Sannimitan bharam tyaga vinasena isati(?). Money will be spent, and if it is spent for good cause, that is the proper utilization.
Atreya Rsi: All the community people here in this room have donated as much as they can. They have helped us.
Prabhupada: In America we have got the facility for selling books. Contribution there is, but our main source of income by selling books. We are selling books to the extent of sixty...?
Harikesa: Sixty thousand dollars.
Prabhupada: Sixty thousand dollars daily. Sixty thousand dollars daily. America and Europe. Europe we have got other language publication. Have you got the German?
Jnanagamya: We had French books, Bhagavad-gita, Prabhupada, it was sold. We had one German Bhagavad-gita too.
Prabhupada: We have published Chinese Bhagavad-gita. Bring it. It is translated by one Chinese student. Give it to Mr....
Mrs. Patel: I can read Japanese, but not Chinese.
Prabhupada: You know Japanese?
Mrs. Patel: I was brought up there.
Mrs. Patel: So it was just as good as born there. I was just six months baby when I was taken there.
Mrs. Patel: Kobe.
Prabhupada: Oh, Kobe. Oh, in Kobe there are many...
Mrs. Patel: Many, eleven years I stayed.
Prabhupada: I have been there. Many good Indian population. There is a Indian association there. I have been there.
Mrs. Patel: Yes.
Jnanagamya: You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupada, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher-Muhammad, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya's mercy.
Prabhupada: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rupa Gosvami:
aikantiki harer bhaktir
Without the support of sruti, smrti, purana, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpatayaiva kalpate. Utpat... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Krsna, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedanta-sutra: brahma-sutra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaih [Bg. 13.5]. So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Sruti-pramana, this is Vedic culture, sruti-pramana. It must be supported by sruti. In Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find whenever Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, sruti-pramana. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with sruti-pramana. Our Srimad-Bhagavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritamrta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give sruti-pramana. This is the example.
Atreya Rsi: Mrs. Patel has prepared some khicudi.
Prabhupada: Khicudi? Where it is?
Atreya Rsi: It's here.
Prabhupada: I'll take. How many children? You have children?
Mrs. Patel: Two sons and one daughter.
Prabhupada: Two sons.
Mrs. Patel: And one daughter. They have gone to India for their holidays now. They wanted to go to India.
Prabhupada: So, give everyone little, little prasada. You have seen our Bombay temple? We are spending about one crore of...
Mr. Patel: We have seen this Vrndavana. Last year we went.
Prabhupada: There we have spent more than fifty lakhs.
Mr. Sahani: Is New Vrindaban temple the main center of the society where everybody should...
Prabhupada: No. New Vrindaban is one of the centers. We have got 103 centers. In Australia also we have got, Melbourne.
Prabhupada: No, here. [break] ...Krsna practically showing how to live Vrndavana life. In Vrndavana nobody knows Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nobody knows. But their love for Sri Krsna is intense. That is wanted. Prema pumartho mahan. That is required. You simply become an intense lover of Krsna, bas. Your life is successful. It doesn't require any education or... That is the Vrndavana residents' life. They did not know what Krsna is. But it is, very loving center, all the residents of Vrndavana. When Krsna's wonderful activities are discussed, Nanda Maharaja's friend would suggest, "Nanda Maharaja, your son is wonderful. He must be some demigod. He has come to live with us." They did not know that Krsna is the Supreme Lord. (long pause) How far it is, Afghanistan from here?
Mr. Sahani: Actually, it's only one and a half hours.
Prabhupada: Only? By car?
Mr. Sahani: No, no, by air. It's about, less than two thousand kilometers. Border is even nearer, but Kabul is less than two thousand kilometers.
Prabhupada: One Afghan gentleman came. In Afghanistan there are many domiciled Hindus.
Mr. Sahani: Yes. Originally we use to live in Peshwar and they used to work and do business in Kabul and they lived in Kabul, but then they stayed on there and became Afghans.
Prabhupada: After Pakistan. They left Peshwar and went to...
Mr. Sahani: No, they were not living there because there was no passport, there was no need of visa, you could anytime come and go. But after independence of Pakistan, at the same time, they made border, and a country of their own, and then these people stayed on this side, and they became Afghans. There are about, oh, six thousand, five, six thousand.
Mr. Sahani: No, five, six thousand people who are Hindus but have Afghan passports. They have got a beautiful temple there.
Mr. Sahani: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: In Kabul.
Mr. Sahani: Yes, beautiful temple, and there are many Sikhs also there.
Prabhupada: No, why not a beautiful temple here?
Mr. Sahani: Yes.
Prabhupada: Is there any objection?
Mr. Sahani: No objection.
Mrs. Patel: Of course not. Because there's already Gurukula-dwara (?) here. There shouldn't be any.
Mr. Sahani: They have no objection, there's no restriction from the government.
Prabhupada: So make a nice temple.
Atreya Rsi: First we need the land.
Prabhupada: Take that land that you showed me.
Atreya Rsi: Yes, we need a piece of land.
Prabhupada: Why piece? Take big land. Make something gorgeous. Krsna is not poor. Although He likes to live in the village, but He is Dvarakadhisa also.
Mr. Patel: It should be big land for the...
Mr. Sahani: Here the land prices are five times what they are in America.
Prabhupada: Never mind. Eh? There?
Mr. Sahani: The price of land here in Tehran is five times what it is in New York.
Prabhupada: Accha? (laughter)
Mrs. Sahani: Highest, most highest in the world, next to probably Tokyo.
Mr. Sahani: The house which you have seen today is worth two lakhs of dollars. In two lakhs of dollars you can have palace in America.
Prabhupada: No, not that...
Mr. Sahani: But two lakhs here, you have to have all two lakhs completely in your hand before you can step into this house. Over there with two lakhs you step into the house, a palace of one million dollars.
Prabhupada: Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayananda, you know?
Dayananda: It was two twenty-five, I think. 225,000 dollars.
Mr. Sahani: 225,000. But it must be a gorgeous place. Beautiful.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Mr. Sahani: And what was the downpayment for the...
Prabhupada: I paid fifty thousand.
Mr. Sahani: Fifty thousand. Here the downpayment means the total payment. You have to pay everything.
Mr. Patel: And land is so small, must be very small.
Mr. Sahani: We expect that in one or two years' time the prices of land will come back to normal, or at least there will be some place available out of town at a reasonable price. When that happens, I think...
Atreya Rsi: I don't think that will happen.
Mr. Patel: No, it won't happen. Price will never become down.
Mr. Sahani: Now, you know, people are taking the advantage. One who is selling now, he's going to America. He said "Let me collect this two lakhs of dollars, go and buy in America."
Prabhupada: They, in America, they immigration?
Mr. Sahani: He must have taken immigration. His family is going to America. His son and daughter must be there. All Iranians have sons or daughters in America or Europe. So...
Prabhupada: What is the reason?
Mr. Sahani: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here. And the government needed people to get educated. So they gave lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.
Prabhupada: Foreign education.
Mr. Sahani: Yes. So everybody who could have some money if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne, even Switzerland, but they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody... In London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...
Prabhupada: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsahan dhairyat...
Nava-yauvana: So we are here, if we work hard and try to please Krsna, then there we will get a temple. Srila Prabhupada arrived in New York with only eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?
Prabhupada: Seven dollars.
Dayananda: I think you got that from selling Bhagavatam.
Prabhupada: No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is sufficient. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. I was confident Krsna was there seven dollars. (end)