August 14, 1976, Bombay
Guest (Indian man): ...(indistinct) my wife (indistinct). Maybe [break]
Prabhupada: ...enter the Jagannatha temple, He immediately fainted. "So, here is My Lord, Krsna." When the artist will see, "What He has seen? Old figure, not very beautiful, and this man has fainted." Actually there is nothing so extraordinary that one should faint but we see practically that Caitanya Mahaprabhu fainted, "Here is My Lord." It is the question of vision. Premanjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. [At this point a tik-tik lizard makes his sound] It is also confirmed. One, that is called (indistinct), one who is trained up to see God, he can see. (indistinct) Premanjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena. Just like sometimes we cannot see properly if there is, what is called...
Prabhupada: No, no. That ointment.
Prabhupada: Kajjal we say, English what do you say? (indistinct-back and forth over the English) Premanjana-cchur..., anjana means that.
Vasughosa: Anjana, salve, salve.
Prabhupada: There is English proper word.
Vasughosa: "Tinge the eyes with the salve of love."
Prabhupada: Salve, yes. That is the word, salve. The salve of love. One who has painted the eyes with salve of love, he gets it.
Guest (1) (Indian man): But sir, there will only be a few who can reach that stage, but the down-trodden...
Prabhupada: That's a fact,
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid mam vetthi tattvatah
You cannot make such person by showing film. It is not possible.
Guest (1): Well, that I agree. It is not possible to make men devotees or religious by showing films. But at least those who cannot read our books, to whom individually we cannot reach in spite of our...
Prabhupada: But they know, they hear. They hear. There are different processes. They know Krsna (indistinct). Just like in India the Janmastami is coming, I think cent percent houses will observe Janmastami. There is no doubt about it. Either he's a devotee of Krsna or not, even some Muhammadans are there. I know that.
Guest (1): Yes, Parsees, Muhammadans, (indistinct)...
Prabhupada: They observe.
Guest (1): They observe it.
Prabhupada: So to some extent they have got some affection for Krsna but not to that extent. They, there maybe one man may seeing Krsna's pastimes.
Yasomatinandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Krsna, Krsna's pastimes. Philosophy is there but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Krsna People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Krsna consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.
Guest (1): For the students it is good idea.
Yasomatinandana: For everyone. I mean...
Prabhupada: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.
Guest (1): They will misinterpret the whole thing. They will misrepresent, the danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps, I wouldn't say better. Perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.
Guest (2): But not in the way that the films are made.
Guest (1): No, that is not say. I don't want. I could produce...
Prabhupada: That Krsna consciousness is developed when one practices according to the prescribed method,
These are the process, tapasya, brahmacaryena. So it is very difficult for the common man to undergo tapasya. Little tapasya we have introduced, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That is also become very difficult nowadays.
Guest (3): But is it not possible that we (indistinct) name of society for Krsna consciousness and then they will be attracted more and more and they will...
Prabhupada: When you want to attract people you have to show that you (indistinct).
Guest (4): There are good persons who...
Prabhupada: That good person is very, very rare. I... [break] ...education point of view.
Guest: Yes sir.
Prabhupada: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacari. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as grhastha, then vanaprastha, and ultimately sannyasa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Krsna conscious.
Guest (5): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... [break]
Guest (5): Yes, sir.
Prabhupada: If one goes in the village without any dress, without any, if he plays the part of Krsna's and somebody plays the part of Radharani, thousands of people will come. There is no need of film. Yatra-party.
Guest (4): Yatra-party, sir, in the films we do those...
Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Krsna pastimes, still in India...
Guest (4): It is there, sir, so what my submission was that what we do as film producers and in this line of business, that we do it more on commercial basis. Gimmicks are there, castings are there, but then it is not so much educative. What your Prabhupada wants to convey. If, as a member of...
Prabhupada: Education you cannot give. Education means it is practical practice. But to show something, that you can attract even without film. The yatra-party can.
Guest (5): Yatra-party, sir, here again the problem is India's a vast country and for that purpose if you take the whole world as a place, how many yatra-parties can you...
Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, that even if you attract better crowd, what will be the benefits? Unless, because unless you come to the point of practicing, there is no profit. Who will be attracted to practice Krsna Consciousness. Nobody is... We are getting practical experience.
Yasomatinandana: In other words just being attracted to philosophy is not sufficient. There has to be... Let them become a devotee. (indistinct remarks)
Prabhupada: Now just like we are attempting—not only here, everywhere—we have got nice buildings, and (indistinct) and Bombay we have constructed such big, big house so we are asking, at least those who are learned people, that if they retire, come here and practice Krsna consciousness. No, nobody's prepared to practice. And this is a thing, without practice you cannot realize.
Guest (4): That is why sir, we don't going outside.
Guest (4): Whole thing if we make it...
Prabhupada: Just like, practice is also not very difficult. Just like Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So if you daily come to the temple, see the Deity, he'll have some impression and he can think of Krsna, how He is playing flute, how He is nicely dressed, how Radharani is standing (indistinct). Then man-mana, he can think of Krsna very easily. So man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, and as soon as you think of Krsna, you become a devotee. Because a businessman will not spare so much time thinking (of) Krsna, how He is playing flute. He has no business. Without being bhakta, nobody will be interested to meditate on Krsna, how He's standing, how He's playing flute. This is bhakta's business. So anyone who is planning some trying(?) to think of Krsna, that means automatically he becomes bhakta, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yaji, then naturally if he becomes bhakta, naturally then why not offer to Krsna something? Eh? Naturally. Give Him some fruits, some flower, some grains. Then Krsna is accepting them, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. So to think of Krsna, to become a devotee and to offer Him something, patram puspam, and offer Him obeisances, these things are development of Krsna Consciousness. And the result is, find out this verse, man-mana. Mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65], by simply executing these four principles, Krsna assures that you will come, asamsayah, without any doubt.
Guest (4): Without (indistinct).
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
Guests: (indistinct—all talking together)
Guest (5): ...distorting the life of Krsna. Your divine grace the film producers are distorting all our mythological...
Prabhupada: But as soon as you say "mythology," there is no Krsna.
Guest (5): Don't say "mythology," I mean to say, my meaning was that they are distorting all our religious... They are making films, putting something, unusual things and cheap things. We can reform them and bring...
Prabhupada: No, unless (indistinct) it will not to the art.
Guest (5): You can bring these (indistinct) into the art.
Prabhupada: No, that you can use your art.
Guest (5): Yes.
Prabhupada: Just to give some incentive but the thing is unless we practice...
Guest (5): That is the most important. Practice is of... That is the essence. Of course, that is the essence but to bring to the essence something should be (indistinct) people to the right path.
Prabhupada: It can be a part of the propaganda.
Guest (5): Yes, because in India even this...
Prabhupada: But for that part of propaganda, the energy will be required (indistinct). Money energy. Who can spare good money energy? Just like Krsna is lifting the..., you'll show in the picture. You can inform also about that lifting by talking with him.
Guest (6): No, that is no sir. What my suggestion was that we are conveying whatever is there in Bhagavad-gita, whatever, whatever one subject we take. While we are discussing the subject... After all, we are also all human beings...
Prabhupada: I have already said that you can take it as part.
Guest (6): Same time we give some flashbacks and in with cluded(?).
Prabhupada: See the print, don't smoke, no vegetable.
Guest (6): No sir, in the cinema houses they don't smoke.
Prabhupada: No, that is another thing but...
Guest (6): Of course, by force it has been in...
Guest (5): But even you can request also.
Guest (4): We can do. I mean that is not a stage by stage... That stage can be reached, sir. They will feel that they will be ashamed to smoke when such a spiritual thing is being shown to them.
Guest (6): Creating an atmosphere.
Guest (4): Gradually it can... It is not a thing of a day. It will take years to come. We will have to go and my point was that...
Guest (4): But we are... Suppose I am getting, sir as you say...
Prabhupada: Begins. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], if there is any other motive, then immediately there is no (indistinct).
Maybe little bhakti touch but uttama-bhakti, the definition is anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. So it is very difficult for the actors and actresses to give up the commercial life. Anya..., that is anyabhilas, that by playing like this, I'll be popular, I'll get money, this is anyabhilas. So to make it zero is very difficult. bhakti.
Guest (6): No (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Ah. But everything can be dovetailed, nirbandhe krsna sambandhe yukta-vairagyam ucyate. Just like our Sita-Rama(?), she wants to do some display to help Krsna movement. That is very good.
Guest (7): She wanted to make the money.
Guest (7): She wanted to make the money in this country. She would have the money, the richest artist in this country.
Guest (7): But of course she is dedicated, as you say, without any motivation and even...
Prabhupada: Money, money-making isn't made, money comes.
Guest (7): She has not commercialized...
Prabhupada: No, no, there is no commercialization. Krsna says that yad karosi yaj-juhosi yad asnasi yat tapasya kurusva tad mad-arpanam [Bg. 9.27]. To earn money, it is not bad, but if it is given to Krsna then it is bhakti.
Guest (7): That is?
Guest (7): Very well, she has done.
Prabhupada: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Krsna. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Krsna wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Krsna's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Krsna is saying, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Krsna is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Krsna accepts it. So that does not mean that I have got money, Krsna is satisfied with little flower, so give little flower to Krsna and enjoy this money for my sense gratification. (chuckles) That is cheating. That is cheating. Krsna says, "Whatever you do, kurusva tad mad-arpanam, give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Krsna, that is bhakti. That is bhakti, it doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Krsna is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this, for this purpose. They may say that Krsna is satisfied with patram puspam phalam toyam [Bg. 9.26], why you are spending so much money? The idea is that when there is money, if you simply offer Krsna patram puspam toyam, that is cheating. Krsna knows it. If you have got money, then you must spend—a gorgeous temple for Krsna. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use and Krsna may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Krsna. So Bombay is so rich, therefore you are collecting. Spend for this temple, spend for this temple. Otherwise it will be spent for other purposes. Money will be spent, it will not stay. Samdimite varunkala vinasiniyate sati (?), money will not stay. At least at the time of my death money will remain where it is, I (indistinct). So money, so long is in my hands, let it spend for Krsna, that is bhakti. It will be spent. How we are going to separate it? There is no excuse. So long it is in my possession, let it be spent for Krsna, that is bhakti. Whatever I know.... We are not of that pleasure, we say, "Don't touch money." No, not only touch, we can consume any amount of money. Bring it and we spend for Krsna. That is our proposal. We are not that so-called renouncer that as soon as there is money my face becomes deformed, my hands go this way. No, we capture immediately and spend it (indistinct) for Krsna. Laksmi, Laksmi is to be engaged in the service of Narayana. Just like Sita-devi, Laksmi she is meant for serving Narayana, Ramacandra. Ravana thought that "Take away the Laksmi from Rama." He became vanquished, finished. He could not keep Laksmi but he became vanquished because she (he) wanted to enjoy Laksmi without Rama. But Laksmi cannot stay without Rama, Narayana. That is false attempt. So he became vanquished, with money, with family, everything, personal, everything. So if we want to keep Laksmi without Narayana, then it will not be very good. Laksmi keep with Narayana, Laksmi-Narayana, there will be... (end)