April 12, 1976, Bombay
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Purchasing flower means they are being cheated. That's all. All third-grade flowers are supplied.
Dr. Patel: But this and that plot, these two plots are actually meant by you for growing flowers. I don't know what they're doing. They are growing ornamental plants but not flowering plants.
Guru dasa: So that piece of land is not exactly on the parikrama but off the parikrama. It's not so far from our property. You know the big park near Singhania's place?
Prabhupada: Park? Singhania's building is there. I have seen. Park, I don't know.
Prabhupada: Hm. So how did you like?
Guru dasa: It has trees on it, some. It's a little bit more than an acre, and the buildings are not very big.
Prabhupada: They can be repaired.
Guru dasa: Yes. It would be very easy to add on or construct or do whatever you want. And it's, I'd say about five to seven minutes walking.
Prabhupada: Not far away.
Prabhupada: You can have a garage here? So we can see?
Saurabha: Yes, you can walk on the side.
Prabhupada: Oh. Prahlada Maharaja's...
Dr. Patel: From Srimad-Bhagavata. This morning only I read about this thing.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...becomes humble. God is for the humble and meek. In Bible also it is stated. And because everyone is trying to become God, how he becomes humble?
Dr. Patel: I think Christ taught humility by his own action.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Even Vaisnava...
Prabhupada: Kaviraja Gosvami, who has written this immortal Caitanya-caritamrta, he is presenting himself, purisera kita haite muni se laghistha: [Cc. Adi 5.205] "I am lower than the worms in the stool." Just see. He is not hypocrite. He is feeling like that. "Oh, what is my value?" Purisera kita haite muni se laghistha, jagai madhai haite muni se papistha. Jagai-Madhai was a...
Dr. Patel: Those two boys Caitanya...
Prabhupada: Yes. So he says, "I am more sinful than Jagai-Madhai." Mora nama yei laya tara punya ksaya: "If anyone remembers me, then whatever pious activities he has done, it is all finished."
Dr. Patel: These Vaisnava acaryas don't allow their feet to be touched because they feel that he should...
Prabhupada: So why they do not utilize it proper?
Dr. Patel: This is a private thing. They want to be (indistinct) My daughter (indistinct) boy who is studying.... He has his M.D. of London (indistinct)
Prabhupada: It is settled up. Very nice. And son? Your son?
Dr. Patel: My son is in the Caine(?) Hospital, a professor of medicine.
Prabhupada: No, no, he is also married? No.
Dr. Patel: He is married, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Father-mother's responsibility up to marriage. Then they are.... They are locked. They are locked.
Dr. Patel: I am more responsible because I have got no wife.
Dr. Patel: [break] ...a lot of money in America. These boys are all from there. They are very good boys. You can get butter from Poland (Holland?).
Prabhupada: We can get everything, but the government will not allow. That is the difficulty. We can get grain, food...
Dr. Patel: I think grain they would allow. So many Christian institutions from America donate butter and ghee and rice and wheat to the Christian churches here. I think they would not object. We have not tried, perhaps.
Prabhupada: No, we are trying. In Bengal they are trying.
Dr. Patel: Not here. They allow. How we are getting that Australian ghee all the time?
Dr. Patel: They allow from Australia.
Dr. Patel: They should allow from States also.
Prabhupada: [break] ...milk is cheaper than the bottle.
Dr. Patel: Just as wine is cheaper in Paris than water. I had to pay more for a glass of water. (Hindi) [break] It is not here, but...
Prabhupada: It is in Delhi.
Dr. Patel: They should come here. So they may arrive some day.
Prabhupada: So where is? Arrange to bring him. Otherwise they will not believe.
Dr. Patel: No, no, we believe you, sir. But we want a darsana of it. (laughter)
Prabhupada: So ask. Bring it in the meantime. [break] ...not less than one lakh of devotees, at least, so crowded.
Dr. Patel: That is on holy day, no?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Dr. Patel: And one on the day you were in London.
Dr. Patel: I was told.
Prabhupada: There also, packed up, so many. Now our temple is going first, even the other temples are so old.
Prabhupada: And it was a barren place.
Dr. Patel: They all come to see the devotees. These foreign devotees, they are enchanted to see them. All these times we were seeing the foreign, foreign, those padres, the Christians. Now we are seeing the sanatana...
Prabhupada: And another the thing is that Ramakrishna Mission has constructed temple of Ramakrishna. Nobody goes there. It is lying barren.
Dr. Patel: You were planning to raise a temple in Kuruksetra?
Prabhupada: Yes. I have applied to the government for land, twenty-five acres land.
Dr. Patel: Very big. But is that land available to us?
Prabhupada: Yes, available. And we have asked government to give us 350 acres of land in Mayapura to construct Vedic planetarium, 350 feet high. It will require eight crores of rupees minimum. I shall exhibit there all the planetary system, bhurloka, Goloka...
goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya
devi-mahesa-hari-dhamasu tesu tesu
te te prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
Dr. Patel: Now the Russians also have come to this conclusion, the Russian scientists and astro-physicists, that there are some planets here in the cosmos which actually have people, I mean, has life like human beings. The other day I read a big article on that. Now they agree.
Prabhupada: They will agree so many things.
Dr. Patel: They will agree later on that the dialectical materialism is not the right thing, but the dialectical spiritualism is the right thing. What Karl Marx said was wrong. But they have started reading the Vedas and all these, Ramayana, Mahabharata, and...
Prabhupada: They have got good sympathy for Indian culture.
Dr. Patel: And if they read it, then Karl Marx teaching will go away.
Prabhupada: And we are getting enquiries from Russia of our books, about our books. We are getting enquiries. I am sending Gopala Krsna to make market of our books.
Dr. Patel: If they start reading Srimad-Bhagavata and Bhagavad-gita, then Karl Marx will be lost because the sanatana-dharma is a spiritual communism in fact.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Sanatana is eternal. It is eternal religion. It is the religion of the soul and not of the body, dies. Soul is eternal, so religion is eternal. I am right, sir?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sanatana means eternal.
Dr. Patel: So this dialectical materialism wherein Karl Marx said that it is a material reaction, chemical reaction in the material, which produces consciousness, it is a falsehood. It is the consciousness keeps the material going. So they will change their opinion now.
Dr. Patel: No, No, Hegel.... Yes, Engels, not Hegel.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: I mean Hegel did try to improve upon Karl Marx. Really material is important. When the person dies why the body should rot? They every day see.
Guru dasa: Prabhupada pointed out the other day that when someone dies, we have all the bodily fluids there, all the organs. Why can't we put it together and make life again?
Dr. Patel: That's right. So now they have started reading all these, our books. They will now make amendment on it. As you said, they will thesis, synthesis. The present practice of communism in Russia is much more diluted than what it was twenty, thirty years back.
Prabhupada: It should be.
Dr. Patel: And it will be like India after twenty years.
Guru dasa: The result is that the biggest problem in Russia is that no one comes to work-absenteeism.
Dr. Patel: That will be here also. I have been to Ceylon, sir. And in Colombo they are giving free ration to the people. I mean, the rice.
Prabhupada: There is a story in Bengal. (Bengali) The woman had seven sons. The mother requested first son, "My dear boy, now I am going to die. Take me to the Ganges side." He said, "Why? You have got so many other sons, why you are requesting me?"
Dr. Patel: She was calling every one, and nobody took her.
Prabhupada: And then second son, third.... Everyone said like that, and she died without Ganga. Agar ma ganga.(?) So this.... And everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work today."
Guru dasa: You tell the story about a man beating with a stick, and then the police constable came and said, "You have beaten him." "No, no, no. It was the stick that beat him, not me." (laughter) No responsibility.
Dr. Patel: No, but, you see, the sense of possession in human society is more important, because they have no sense of possession.
Dr. Patel: Even with all our philosophic and all our learning we have the sense of possession of this body which can't leave the moha in it. With all that, sir, then how can they do it?
Prabhupada: No, higher than that, the sense that everything is possessed by God, that is perfection.
Dr. Patel: That's right, but...
Prabhupada: But they are making.... Just like I possess something, now their possession is.... Now you possess something. We are not reaching the point of God. So it is expanded selfishness. It is not perfect. Perfection will come when they understand that everything is possessed by God. Then that is.... Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. When they come to that conclusion.
Dr. Patel: They have started doing. Even grammar is good. They have started studying Upanisad in earnest now. I read an article on that, Russian newspapers, studying the philosophy of Vedas and Upanisads. [break]
Prabhupada: They said Ramayana by Tulasi dasa, translated in English, and it was finished within a week. They have got little sympathy for Indian culture.
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? This idea that he was discussing, how we naturally have a tendency to possess something.... If I don't possess the state, I possess the body. Is this the disease?
Prabhupada: Yes. We have to nullify this, that "I don't possess anything; God possess everything." Then it is perfection.
Dr. Patel: No, that is why, sir, this communism cannot survive, because they say that afterward the state will vanish. It will evaporate. How can it evaporate without spiritualism there at the back? They have a materialistic ideology and material, I mean, there are changes. There is nothing permanent in material. So the communism, so-called material communism, dialectic materialism of Karl Marx, are not full. [break]
Dr. Patel: Only name of God has value.
Prabhupada: Practical application.
Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada gave the example that if you see a note on the floor, three different people, one person sees it and ignores it, so he doesn't know the proper utilization of the thing. Another person sees it, picks it up and puts it in his pocket. He is dishonest. The third person sees it, picks it up, and seeks out the real owner. So there has to be Krsna consciousness; otherwise how do we know who everything belongs to?
Dr. Patel: That is spiritual concern. And spirit itself.... Krsna is.... I mean, without Krsna there cannot be anything. That is the highest culture.
Dr. Patel: (plane overhead) Vedas say that...
Prabhupada: [break] ...and prasada shall be ready. Anyone comes, he may give him. Then it will be nice.
Dr. Patel: But God has made maya so strong that if the man is not attracted or caught into the web of maya, the whole samsara would not go. (laughs) That because God wants to...
Prabhupada: The same argument. If people do not become criminal, how the prison house will be maintained?
Dr. Patel: It is a prison house.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Patel: God wants the prison house to...
Guru dasa: No, no, first there are so many criminals, and then prison house has to be built. Because there are so many, a bigger prison house has to be built.
Prabhupada: Just like now medical science is improving means hospital increasing. That means people are becoming more diseased. And they are taking it advanced.
Dr. Patel: No, no, modern advancement is required, even hospitals. So modern medicine is always preventative.
Prabhupada: Stop disease; otherwise where is improvement? (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...poetry, krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare (Prema-vivarta). As soon as the living entity desires sense gratification, immediately maya captures.
Dr. Patel: That is what I want. I really meant. Man is producing the desire. You cannot...
Dr. Patel: New (indistinct), do you mean to say?
Prabhupada: No, old (indistinct), everything. Yes, all, all squared up, all accounts squared up. Begin new chapter of your life. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. As soon as one begins devotional service, he shall be clean of all sinful reactions. Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: So why not stay for a longer time here?
Prabhupada: Nobody comes to hear.
Dr. Patel: When you are staying here in Bombay your health does improve very well.
Prabhupada: No, Bombay I like very well. Because I like Bombay and this beach, I was so much persistent for get this land. That is the history. Every one of my disciples, they declined. I insisted, "I must possess this land." And Nair was thinking that "This man has no money, so just involve him, and whatever money he gives us, I take it."
Dr. Patel: But before he could sell, he died, poor fellow.
Prabhupada: And now?
Dr. Patel: He died, no?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] And when she decided to kill Krsna, she was killed.
Dr. Patel: And Krsna gave...
Prabhupada: Yes, she got good fortune.
Dr. Patel: Gave her the mukti.
Prabhupada: Kambhat? Kambhata? Kambhata means this...(?)
Dr. Patel: This aviation fellow.
Prabhupada: No, that what is called? Kambhata.(?)
Dr. Patel: ...he has got some planes here. Some safari service. [break]
Dr. Patel: I don't know.
Guru dasa: Because the Vedas is the essence of everything. That's why. There's technology here. Why we don't steal the technology?
Dr. Patel: We have no technology. That is our technology. You are taking our technology.
Dr. Patel: We have ourselves the original technology.