JAMES.HAY
William James
Hayagriva: This is William James. All of these quotations are taken from his most famous book, which was entitled The Varieties of Religious Experience. He's an American philosopher. He defines religion in this way: "Were we to limit our view to it, we should have to define religion as an external art, the art of winning the favor of God. The relation goes direct from heart to heart, from soul to soul, between man and his maker."
Prabhupada: The man or not man, there are living beings, varieties; we simply do not see the man as a living being. We see there are varieties of living beings, beginning from water up to the higher planetary system. There are different forms of living being, we have several times repeated. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati, like that, nine millions, ah, nine hundred thousands forms of body within the water; then plants, trees, creepers, insects. So all of them are living beings. God is concerned with all of them. Why man is created? Every one of us in different form we are created. Or exactly not created; we are part and parcel of God. In one word God is the father of all living entities. So the simple relationship is that God is maintainer, we are maintained. This is our relationship. In the material world, as a man may have more than one wife, so similarly God has two prakrtis, or subordinate energies—material and spiritual. So in the material world the material nature is the mother, God is the father, and varieties of living entities, they are all maintained by the father, supreme father. This is the conception of universal brotherhood. And if we understand our relationship with God as father and son... There are so many sons. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, sarva-yonisu. All different forms of life, the mother is material nature, and God says, aham bija-pradah pita: [Bg. 14.4] "And I am the seed-giving father." So that relationship should be known, and if we act according to that relationship, there will be actual peace and prosperity and advancement of all knowledge. That is wanted.
Hayagriva: Concerning the founding of religions, James writes, "The founders of every church owe their power originally to the fact of their direct personal communion with the Divine. Not only the superhuman founders—the Christ, the Buddha, Muhammad—but all the originators of Christian sects have been in this case. So personal religion should still seem the primordial thing even for those who continue to esteem it incomplete."
Prabhupada: Yes. God is person. If He is the supreme father, the father is a person. We have got no experience of father being imperson. My father is person, his father is person, his father is person. In this way go on, father's father's..., searching. So the ultimate father is also person. There is no doubt about it. Either human father or animal father, every living being is a person. Therefore the right conclusion is God the father of all living being is person. Personal conception of God is there in every religion-Christian religion, Muhammadan religion, or Vedic religion. In the Vedic religion, om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayoh. Those who are sura, means advanced in spiritual knowledge, or the brahmanas, one who knows the Supreme, they find the supreme father is Lord Visnu. Lord Visnu and Krsna is the same category, or same substance. So God is person and the ultimate end. The impersonal realization is imperfect realization of God. The Supersoul realization is still advancement, but the final advancement is Bhagavan, or person God. So we must know our relationship with, and first of all our first business is to know God and our relationship with Him, then act accordingly. Then our life becomes perfect. This is the process of God realization.
Hayagriva: James saw religion as the source of philosophy. He writes, "Since the relation of man to God may be either moral, physical or ritual, it is evident that out of religion in the sense in which we take it, theologies, philosophies, and ecclesiastical organizations may secondarily grow."
Prabhupada: So philosophy means advancement of knowledge. So we are making progress in knowledge when our knowledge is actually come to the point of perfection of knowledge, that is understanding of God. God is there, but on account of our foolishness, sometimes we deny the existence of God. That is the most foolish platform of living condition. But sometimes we have vague idea, some imagination, and sometimes impersonal, sometimes pantheistic. In this way different philosophies means they are searching after God, but on account of not being perfect, there are differences of opinion or different conception of God. But actually God is person, and when one comes to that platform—to know God, to talk with Him, to see Him, to feel His presence, even to play with Him—that is the highest platform of God realization. And the relationship is God is the great and we are small. So our position is always subordinate. [break]
Hayagriva: This is the continuation of William James.
Prabhupada: So to carry the orders of God is religion. So the more this fact is realized, that is perfection of religion, and dharma, religion, is perfect when he understands who is God and how to learn to love Him.
sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yenatma samprasidati
[SB 1.2.6]
When we actually understand God and try to please Him, serve Him, that is really religious life and perfection of life.
Hayagriva: James gave the following estimation of impersonalism and Buddhism. He wrote, "There are systems of thought which the world usually calls religious and yet which do not positively assume a God. Buddhism is in this case. Popularly, of course, the Buddha himself stands in place of a God, but in strictness, the Buddhistic system is atheistic."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, sammohaya sura-dvisam [SB 1.3.24]. Lord Buddha appeared at a time when people became atheistic, and especially they began to kill animals in the sacrifice in large quantity. So God, Lord Buddha, appeared, being sympathetic to the poor animals. Sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam. He was very, very much aggrieved to see the poor animals are being killed unnecessarily. So he preached the religion of nonviolence, and because the people became atheist, so Lord Buddha, just to take them under his control, he also collaborated and said, "Yes, there is no God, but you hear me." But he is incarnation of God, so it is a kind of transcendental cheating that in the beginning he said there is no God, but he is God himself, and people accepted his words or instruction. That is Buddhism. So this very word is used, sammohaya sura-dvisam [SB 1.3.24]. Sura-dvisam, atheist class of men, are always against theist class of men. Therefore their name is that atheist means who are envious of devotees. So in order to cheat these persons who are envious of God or devotee, Lord Buddha appeared and established a system of religion on the platform of nonviolence—no more animal killing. Because those who are animal killers, they cannot understand God (indistinct). That is not possible. They may have some vague idea. So Lord Buddha wanted to stop these sinful activities, and he established the system of nonviolence.
Hayagriva: James writes about religion and total surrender and involvement. He says, "In the religious life surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused. Even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our life can so successfully fulfill."
Prabhupada: Yes. Without religion the human society is animal society. So religion must be there, and religion means to understand God, to learn how to love God, how to obey His orders, and actually real religion means to accept the order of the Supreme Lord, God. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita this fact is taught. God is personally teaching that "You become My devotee, always think of Me," man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, "worship Me," mad-yaji, "and if you cannot do anything more, you simply offer your obeisances unto Me." Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Without any big, I mean to say, attempt for religious system, if one has got the idea that there is God, and even without seeing Him if he follows His instruction, always think of Him... Either you think of Him as personal God or as localized or all-pervading, but God has got form. One has to think of the form of the God. That is easier. And if God is accepted as impersonal, that is very troublesome. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, klesah adhikataras tesam avyakta asakta cetasam. Those who are impersonalist, for them to think of God becomes very difficult job. Who is God and what to think of, so the so-called meditation is very difficult. But if you have got really conception of a God, just like we have got Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Although He has got different incarnations, forms, He is the Supreme, so we think of Him. That is our Krsna consciousness movement. We can think, because we have got the form, we have got the Deity in the temple, we have got the picture in our room, and so we have got definite conception of God and definite instruction of God. So this system, following the Bhagavad-gita, is definitive understanding of God, so people may take this system, and by practical example they can see how those who are Krsna conscious, how they are advancing in the religious system, in every system, because God has instructed everything—religious, political, social, cultural, philosophical, science, physics—everything perfectly. God, God means He gives perfect instruction. So this perfect instruction in the Bhagavad-gita, we, we have accepted. Not accepted; we have known. God is there; you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. So those who are fortunate, they will see the actual form of God, follow His instruction, and be perfect in the life. That is wanted.
Hayagriva: James sees happiness as an integral part of religion.
Prabhupada: Yes. Happiness is this. When you know God, follow God, you become happy. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as is one actually God-realized person, he is immediately happy, prasannatma. Prasannatma means happy. There is no more duality, that distress, like that. He is perfectly happy, prasannatma. Prasannatma is described as na socati na kanksati: there is no more hankering, no more lamentation. Everything is perfect condition. Samah sarvesu: there is no distinction between man to man, nation to nation, animal to man, because in perfect state, the one who is actually religious, he is no longer interested only in the human society, but he knows that everyone within this material world, either man or animal or trees, they are all living entities, part and parcel of God. They are different forms only. In this way he has got clear understanding, clear dealing and clear life, clear advancement, and clear success. That is perfection of life.
Hayagriva: He says that the natural existence often proves itself to be basically unhappy. "With such relations between religion and happiness, it is perhaps not surprising that men come to regard the happiness which a religious belief affords as a proof of its truth. If a creed makes a man feel happy he almost inevitably adopts it. Such a belief ought to be true; therefore it is true. Such, rightly or wrongly, is one of the immediate inferences of the religious logic used by ordinary men."
Prabhupada: Yes. If you are actually in clear conception of God, and if you have decided to obey God and love Him, that is happiness. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje, ahaituky apratihata [SB 1.2.6]. This process of acting in obedience to the order of God, as we are doing in Krsna consciousness movement... We have no other business than to obey the orders of God. God says that you preach this confidential philosophy of Krsna consciousness everywhere. So because we are trying to love God, we have got some affection and love for God; therefore we are so much eager to spread Krsna consciousness. Otherwise, "It is Krsna's business. Why should we bother about Him?" No. Because we love Krsna, and He is happy that His message is being spread, that is our happiness also, that we are trying to serve God, tacitly, without any doubt. So we also feel happy, and God says that He will be very happy if you do this. So this is reciprocation. This is religion. Religion is no sentiment. Actual realization of God, actual carrying out or executing the orders of God, then God is happy, we are happy, and our progress of life is secure.
Hayagriva: He sees the lover of God as being a morally free person. He writes, "As St. Augustine's maxim, 'If you but love God you may do as you incline,' is morally one of the profoundest of observations, yet it is pregnant for such persons with passports beyond the bounds of conventional morality."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is very nice. Morality means to execute the orders of God. If God is satisfied then it is moral. Otherwise our so-called convention in this material conception of life, "This is good," "This is bad," they are described as mental concoction. We must have clear orders from God, and if we execute it for the satisfaction of God, this means, in other words, morality means the action which satisfies God, the Supreme Lord. That is morality. And if he does not satisfy the Lord, then it is not morality; it is immorality. We therefore sing every day yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado **, and the orders of God is carried through the representative of God, spiritual master, because directly we have no connection with God. The spiritual master is the transparent via media between God and ourself. In our perfect stage, of course, we can talk with God, but in the beginning, neophyte state, there is no such chance; therefore we have to take instruction from the spiritual master who has got direct connection with God. And if we satisfy the spiritual master, this means we have satisfied God. That is happiness.
Hayagriva: Concerning evil, James writes, "Evil is a disease, and worry over disease is itself an additional form of disease which only adds to the original complaint. Even repentance and remorse, affections which come in the character of ministers of good, may be but sickly and relaxing impulses. The best repentance is to up and act for righteousness and forget that you ever had relations with sin."
Prabhupada: Yes. The final morality is... What in this portion?
Hayagriva: He feels that evil is a disease first...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hayagriva: ...but worry about evil is just an orig...
Prabhupada: Another.
Hayagriva: ...just another disease.
Prabhupada: So disease, when you are in diseased condition, it means increasing suffering. Disease increases. Without treatment disease increases, as fire, without being extinguished, without attempt of extinguishing the fire, it increases. Debt, compound interest, increases. So therefore the instruction is that disease, fire, and debt should not be kept as it is without any attention. The attention must be there to see that it is not increasing, it is being completely extinguished. That is intelligence. So therefore we must know our suffering is on account of disobedience to the orders of God, or on account of becoming irreligious. So we must find out the real system of religion, and we, there is already, but on account of our ignorance it is now covered by material contamination. Otherwise our relationship with God is a fact. We are thinking independently. That is foolishness. The demons, or the atheist class, they falsely think independent of the orders of God; therefore they are forced to accept which they do not want. Ultimately they are forced to accept the punishment—birth, death, old age, and disease—but still, atheist class, they deny existence of God. That is their foolishness. Actually God is there, His order is there, and if we are deficient in carrying out the order, we should take the instruction of bona fide spiritual master, the representative of God, and we should execute it, and then we become happy.
Hayagriva: He sees two basic types of religions. One he calls sort of a naive optimism that says "Hurrah for the universe. God's in His heaven, all is right with the world." He calls this "the sky-blue optimistic gospel." And another type of religion, which he calls pessimistic in the sense that these religions recognize the inevitable futility of materialistic life, and they offer deliverance, or mukti, from the fourfold miseries of material existence. He says, "Man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life." So he felt that the completest religions take a pessimistic view of life on this..., life in this world, materialistic life.
Prabhupada: Yes, unless one is pessimistic of this material world, he is animal. A man knows what are the sufferings of this material world: adhyatmic, adhibautic, adhidaivic. There are so many suffering pertaining to the mind, to the mind, sufferings offered by other living beings, and sufferings imposed forcibly by the laws of nature. So the world is full of suffering, but under the spell of maya, illusion, we accept this suffering condition as progress. But ultimately whatever we do, the death is there. All the resultant action of our activities, they are taken away and we are put to death. So under these circumstances there is no happiness within this material world. I have fully arranged for my happiness, and any moment, just after arrangement, we are kicked out; we have to accept death. So where is happiness here? The intelligent man is always pessimistic, that "First of all let us become secure," that we are trying to adjust this material position to become happy. But who is going to allow us to become happy here? This is pessimistic view. And then further advancement of knowledge is there, and when he understands the orders the orders of Krsna, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], to surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and after surrendering and understanding Him fully, then we go to the world which is full of bliss, knowledge and eternal life, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya. That is perfection of life. So unless we take a pessimistic view of this material world, we shall remain attached to it, and there will be repetition of birth and death—sometimes high-grade life, sometimes low-grade life, but this business is very, very disturbing. We make some arrangement to live here permanently, but nature will not allow us. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. We work very hard; there is unhappiness. And sometimes we may get good results, sometimes bad results, sometimes frustration, so where is happiness? Happiness is only to understand God and act according to His advice, and then go back to home, back to Godhead. That is happiness.
Hayagriva: James writes of the characteristics of a sadhu in this way. He says, "There is a certain composite photograph of universal saintliness, the same in all religions, of which the features can easily be traced. They are these." And he numbers, "Number one: a feeling of being in a wider life than that of this world's selfish little interests; in a conviction not memerly intellectual, but as it were sensible of the existence of an ideal power. In Christian, saintliness this power is always personified as God." So that's the one characteristic of a sadhu.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hayagriva: A feeling of being in a wider life than that of this world's selfish little interest.
Prabhupada: Yes. God, the definition of God is there in the Vedic literature, that God is the great. The Christian idea is also that. That greatness, that if we soberly think what is the greatness, the greatness in six opulences, that God is the richest, God is the strongest, and God is the famous, and God is the wisest, and God is the most beautiful, and God is the perfect renounced. He has got so many states, sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29], but still He is not very much interested within this material world. He is in spiritual world along with associates. Therefore our proposition is, let us go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. That is perfection of life.
Hayagriva: His second characteristic of a sadhu is thus: "He has a sense of the friendly continuity of the ideal power with our own life in a willing self-surrender to its control."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the ideal. Krsnera samsara kara chadi' anacara. We are member of the same family. God is the supreme father. That is ideal society. What does he say further?
Hayagriva: The uh... What?
Prabhupada: Second point.
Hayagriva: Oh, the second point again? "A sense of the friendly continuity."
Prabhupada: Yes. Friendly continuity means the, there are so many relationship, five relationship. First relationship is the master and the servant, and then friend to friend, then son and father, and then beloved and the lover. So these are all friendly relationship. We can, when we are actually in God relationship, we have got natural instinct to accept any one of them. So our friendly relationship with God can be chosen. Somebody likes sometime as friend to friend, father and son, or beloved and the lover, master and the servant, and the Supreme and the subordinate. They are five relationship. Any one of them, when we are actually liberated, free from material contamination, we being eternal part and parcel of God, the particular relationship is revived. That is called svarupa-siddhi, revival of our original relationship with God.
Hayagriva: Three, he speaks of, "An immense elation, or happiness, and freedom as the outlines of the confining selfhood melt down."
Prabhupada: Yes. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. This material selfishness is maya. Actually that is not selfishness. Real selfishness is to know the relationship with God. But persons who are engrossed with the spell of maya, illusory energy, they do not know that. Mostly, 99.9%, they have vague idea of God, and how they will know the relationship? So, so that our actual business, first business is to have complete idea, complete sense of God and our relationship. That is the business of human life. Therefore in the Vedic process, the real business is realize God. Either you take yoga system or jnana system, and bhakti is cent percent simply realization of God. That is the business of human life. He hasn't got to do any other thing. That is practical understanding of God. A perfect human being knows that "My necessities of life is supplied by God, so I have no business to improve the economic condition." That cannot be done also. Nobody is going to be very rich, all of them. According to the destiny he gets his position. So one who is self-realized, he does not want to improve the material condition of life, but he wants to improve the spiritual conception of life. That is human life.
Hayagriva: Four, he sees, "a shifting of the emotional center toward loving and harmonious affection, toward yes and away from no, where the clangs of the non-ego are concerned." That is to say, agreeing with God.
Prabhupada: Yes. God is asking always that "You agree to obey My orders," and as soon as we accept this principle, we immediately becomes liberated: "Yes, from this point I shall now fully agree to the the orders of Krsna, or God." That is liberation. The liberation is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: to give up a mode of life other than devotional life. Muktih hitva anyatha rupam. Our life is meant for rendering devotional service to the Lord. As soon as we give up this principle of life, devotional service to the Lord, that is our anyatha rupam, means our living condition otherwise, except devotional service. That living condition otherwise than the devotional service is called conditioned life. And as soon as we come to this platform of devotional service, that is mukti, liberated life. Muktih hitva anyatha rupam sva-rupena vyavasthitih. To remain in one's own constitutional position is called mukti, or liberation. [break]
Hayagriva: James believes that the existence of many religions in the world is not regrettable but is necessary to the existence of different types of men. He says, "All men have, should have... Should all men have the same religion? Ought they to approve the same fruits and follow the same leadings? Are they so like in their inner needs that exactly the same religious incentives are required? Or are different functions allotted to different types of men, so that some may really be the better for a religion of consolation and reassurance whilst others are better for one of terror and reproof?" And he goes on to conclude that he thinks that difference...
Prabhupada: This is religion. Therefore I was talking in this morning that accept God as the supreme father and the material nature is the mother and we living entities, in 8,400,000 forms, we are all sons of God. So everyone has got the right to live at the cost of the father. The father is the maintainer—that is natural—and we are maintained. So every living being should be satisfied in the condition given by God. Man should live in his own condition, the animal also should live in his own condition. Why the man should encroach upon the rights, living right of other living entities like the animals? No. Nobody should encroach upon other's right. Everyone is son of God. Let him be maintained by the orders of God. That is ideal life, family life. All living entities are the members of the same family. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that krsnera samsara kara chadi' anacara: just live in the family of Krsna without violating the rules and regulation. Then it is family life. Or without violating the orders of God. Just like in the family the father is the chief man, and the sons can live very happily by being obedient to the father. There is no trouble; father will give all supplies and necessities if we remain obedient to the father, and all the brothers can live peacefully. A very common example. But they will not do that. They will encroach upon others' jurisdiction. That is the cause of disturbance: obeying..., disobeying the orders of God.
Hayagriva: Typical of the latter part of the nineteenth century, James' only acquaintance with Hinduism was through the impersonalists, and he spoke of samadhi and the mystical experience in this way. He says, "The Vedantists say that one may stumble into superconsciousness sporadically without the previous discipline, but it is then impure. The test of its purity, like our test of religious value, is empirical. Its fruits must be good for life. When a man comes out of samadhi they assure us that he remains enlightened—a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed, illumined." What is this samadhi or...
Prabhupada: Samadhi means ecstasy, always in God consciousness. That is samadhi. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, yoginam api sarvesam mad-gata antaratmana [Bg. 6.47]. The yogis means they are always remaining in meditation of the Supreme Lord. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa. Mind is always absorbed in God. That is samadhi. He has no other thought than God. So if we can continue in Krsna consciousness, that is samadhi.
Hayagriva: Now James equates this mystical union, or samadhi, to be a union in which the individual has lost contact with the external world.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hayagriva: And he therefore concludes that mystical states cannot be sustained for long, except in rare instances. Half an hour or at most an hour or two seems to be the limit beyond which they fade into the light of common day. "Often, when faded, their quality can be but imperfectly reproduced in memory, but when they recur it is recognized, and from one recurrence to another it is susceptible of continuous development in what is felt as inner richness and importance."
Prabhupada: Yes. That richness comes to perfection when one thinks of Krsna constantly, without any cessation. That is recommended in the yogic chapter of the Bhagavad-gita:
Uh...
Hari-sauri: Yuktatamo matah.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hari-sauri: Sa me yuktatamo matah?
Prabhupada: Hm, yes. You can find out that verse.
yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gata antaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate (yo mam)
sa me yuktatama...
[Bg. 6.47]
He is first-class yogi who does not cease to think of Krsna, or God. So our Krsna consciousness movement is that we keep always in the thought of Krsna, twenty-four hours. Then we do not fall down from the yogic principle. That is our...
Hayagriva: Such mystical states, as James points out, have been also experienced momentarily and artificially through drugs such as ether. William James himself took ether...
Prabhupada: These are all artificial thing. This is not sustained.
Hayagriva: LSD and these...
Prabhupada: Another artificial names. Artificial things cannot sustain, but if you engage yourself in the devotional process, sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-seva [SB 7.5.23], always hearing a about Krsna, always talking about Krsna, always remembering about Krsna, always engage in some service in the temple—there are so many services—or distributing literature about Krsna, in this way, if you keep always engaged in Krsna's business, that is perfection of life.
Hayagriva: James, after analyzing all of these religions, different religious experiences, he gives his own conclusions, and he concludes his book in this way. He gives five basic conclusions. The first-one—"That the visible world is part of a more spiritual universe from which it draws its chief significance." [break]
Prabhupada: Yes. Material world means it is existing in the spiritual effulgence of the Lord. Just like all the planets they are resting, living within the sunshine, but by geographical position, when it is back side, the sun is not in the front but in the back, then it becomes dark. Similarly, everything is existing in the spiritual effulgence, rays of the Lord, and when you forget, this is called material world. So the material world is in that piece of spiritual world, but forgetfulness of God is material. So when we..., our revival of consciousness, God consciousness, then there is no more material world. For such person who is advanced in spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, there is nothing material; everything is spiritual.
Hayagriva: Well that's his second conclusion. His second is that "Union or harmonious relation with that higher universe is our true end."
Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual realization.
Hayagriva: Three...
Prabhupada: There is no material realization. No more material realization means no more forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God. Then it is spiritual.
Hayagriva: Three: "That prayer or a communion with the spirit thereof, be that spirit God or law, is a process wherein work is really done and spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, within the phenomenal world, for religion produces a new zest which adds itself like a gift to life and takes the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism." In other words, our relation with God in the world gives...
Prabhupada: That we have al...
Hayagriva: ...it's like a gift to life.
Prabhupada: ...already explained. We have got five relationships. To realize the creation of God with awe and veneration, appreciation, that is one relationship. This is called santa rasa. Then further progress is that to offer himself to serve God. That is called dasya rasa. And further advancement, to treat God as friend, that is sakhya rasa. Then accept God as son, that is vatsalya rasa. And accept God as the most beloved, that is madhurya rasa. So in this madhurya rasa, to accept God as the most beloved includes other relationships; therefore here is the highest perfection of relationship. Although all other relationships they are as good, but it depends on the devotee's choice whichever relationship we like. The result is the same, but by comparative study it has been decided by the saintly persons that our relationship with God as the lover and beloved, that is the highest position.
Hayagriva: The fifth is an assurance of safety and temper of peace and, in relation to others, a preponderance of loving affections.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's nice. When you actually come in contact with God, these senses prevail. What is that? The last point?
Hayagriva: An assurance of safety and a temper of peace.
Prabhupada: Yes. A devotee is always confident that "I am sincerely serving Krsna, so in case of danger Krsna will save me." The, just like Prahlada Maharaja life we see. He was helpless child, and his father, great demon, always chastising him, but he was confident that Krsna would save him. So when the things became too much intolerable, so Lord appeared as Nrsimhadeva and killed Hiranyakasipu. So therefore a devotee's protection by God is always guaranteed, and one who is pure devotee, he is not disturbed by any material condition. He keeps his firm faith in God. That is called surrender. It is called avasya raksibe krsna visvasa palanam, to continue the faith that "Krsna will give me protection." This full suvrender means to accept things which is favorable to God consciousness, to reject things which is unfavorable to God consciousness, to have firm faith of security under the protection of God, to enter into the family of God. These are the different processes of surrender.
Hayagriva: He concludes, "In opening ourselves to God's influence, our deepest destiny is fulfilled. The universe takes a turn generally for the worse or for the better in proportion as each one of us fulfills or evades God's demands."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is concept. God demands that "You fully surrender unto Me." So when one fully surrenders unto God, that is perfection of life.
Hayagriva: So that's the conclusion of James. (end)

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