Speech to Maharaja and Maharani
and Conversations Before and After
Indore, December 11, 1970
Hamsaduta: The following speech was recorded by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Gosvami Maharaja at the Lal Bhag Palace before Their Highnesses Maharaja Tukoji Rao Halokar, Maharani Sarmistha Bhai Halokar, on December 11, 1970 at five p.m. in Indore, Madhya Pradesh, India.
Prabhupada: These are not legends. They are fact. Those who are not intelligent, they take it as legend. There are so many descriptions which is not within our experience—we take it as legend. Now, I gave some gentleman the example that the coconut tree, on the tree there are coconut and there are one-kilo water. Now, how the water is transported there? Where is the pipe? Where is the pumping? Because you have got experience if you want to get water high, you have to pump and you must have pipe. So where is the pipe and where is the pumping machine?
Indian man (1): In the tree.
Prabhupada: So as you see, actually it is packed up nice, two pounds of water, very nice... And so nicely packed. How it has happened? What is the explanation of the scientists? According to their calculation, there must be pipe. There must be pumping. Somebody must be pumping. Where are all these? Then is it legend? It is fact. Now you explain how it is happening. If you are scientist, you explain how it is happening. Or you do that. Simply observation will not do. You must make experiment. You make a log standing like that, keep anything, and the, it, water must go.
Indian man (1): Keep the water there...
Indian man (1): And distill it.
Prabhupada: Distill it. (laughter) Then your science will be all right. And where is that, your...? Then what is the value of your science? If you cannot explain which is within your experience and you set aside, "Oh, it is all legend," it is all foolishness. You have no knowledge about that. You admit that. How it is done, you cannot do it, or you have not attained to that standard of knowledge. You say that. Don't say it is legend. That is foolishness. You admit your weakness. If you are as equal, equal in intelligence, then explain how this water is being...
Indian man (1): I had one discussion. So I was given to understand that the pressure in the earth sends.
Prabhupada: That's all right. You do it practically. Show. (laughter) No explanation will do.
Indian man (1): Only when a living thing goes into the earth, just like trees, then, only then, that thing can happen.
Prabhupada: So why don't you make a living thing like that?
Indian man (1): The thing was made... That is nature.
Prabhupada: Then the nature is more intelligent than you. So then there are many intelligent works of nature. You do not know.
Indian man (1): What is in the stars(?) is also nature.
Prabhupada: So you have no full knowledge of nature. That's it. Then you cannot claim that you are perfect, your knowledge is perfect.
Indian man (1): This example is very interesting, coconut tree.
Prabhupada: Yes. There are so many things. So many things. But there is explanation in the Vedas, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The energy of Krsna is working so wonderfully that it appears that exactly it is done by expert person. Now, take a flower, this flower. How nicely it is painted.
Indian man (1): Comes out of a green thing, red.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just see. And how perfectly it is made, coloring. The most beautiful. Nobody can suggest that further coloring this way would have been better. No. This is parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki. Automatically it is done. Automatically.
Indian man (1): And seasonal.
Indian man (1): In one season the same thing will be done all the places.
Prabhupada: All the place. In the season in millions of trees, immediately the same flower is coming out.
Indian man (1): What will bloom in summer...
Prabhupada: So many things, there is no explanation. They cannot simply say... Bogus humbug things they can present, but there is no clear explanation. Even in our body. Now, these hairs are coming out, and what is the explanation of these rascals? These hairs are coming. You're cutting, and coming. Your energy. You do not know your energy, even, what is that energy by which the hair is coming. It is from your body. That means it is your energy. The energy is within you. You do not know how many hairs are there, although it is put in by your...
Indian man (1): Thousands, thousands of... (laughter)
Prabhupada: This is... Abodha-jata. Therefore a living entity is called abodha-jata, "born ignorant, born rascal, born foolish." Abodha-jata.
Prabhupada: Yes. Abodha means no knowledge, and jata means born. By birth he is fool, and he is claiming, "I am God." By birth he's a fool, and he's claiming, "I am God." Just see. This is illusion. This is the maya. He cannot... He does not know how the hairs are growing, and he is God. Just see. "I am God." This has become a fashion, dangerous fashion. And these Mayavadi philosophers, daridra-narayana, this Narayana, that Narayana... Because Narayana is there, therefore he's Narayana. Because you are within your coat, therefore you are coat. This is their argument. Because I am in the room, I am room. Is that very sound argument? Because Narayana is there, therefore he is Narayana. Aiye.
Maharaja. (Hindi) Jaya. Hare Krsna. (Hindi) [break] ...gopesa gopika-kanta radha-kanta namo 'stu te. Your Highness, Her Highness, and Ladies and Gentlemen, this Krsna consciousness movement has a very intimate relationship with the ksatriya family. Lord Krsna says, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Long, long years ago He was speaking in the battlefield of Kuruksetra that about many, many thousands of millions of years ago He spoke the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita to Vivasvan, the predominating deity of the sun globe. And from Vivasvan the surya-vamsa ksatriyas are coming. From Vivasvan, Vaivasvata Manu, because Manu is the son of Vivasvan the sun-god. And from Manu, Maharaja Iksvaku descended, and he is the original king in the Raghu-vamsa dynasty, wherein Lord Ramacandra took His birth. Similarly, in the Candra-vamsa Lord Krsna appeared. So from historical reference we see that when the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears on this earth, in this universe, He takes pleasure to appear in some ksatriya family. And both Ramacandra and Bhagavan Lord Krsna appeared in ksatriya families, and they acted as ksatriya. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, tadatmanam srjamy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Ksatriya king has got two functions. One function is to give protection and happiness to the good citizens, and another function is to kill the demons or the disturbing elements in the society. Lord Krsna, the original form of Visnu... Visnu has got four hands. In two hands He has got the symbol of conchshell and lotus flower, and the other two hands He carries club and the cakra, sudarsana-cakra. So He wanted that a ksatriya king like Maharaja Yudhisthira should rule over the world. That is the practically basic idea of the whole Mahabharata and Bhagavad-gita. So we are very much concerned to preach the message of Lord Krsna, Bhagavad-gita. We are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is without any malinterpretation. We cannot interpret on the words of God because religion means the words of God. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. The principles of religion cannot be made by any human being as much as law cannot be made by the citizens. Law is made by the government. That law is accepted. That is obligatory. Similarly, religion means the words of God. Man-made religion has no value. The Bhagavata says, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] "Such cheating process or pseudo religion process is completely eradicated from Srimad-Bhagavatam." Religion means obedience to the Supreme Lord. And the ruler and the king or the chief of the government is also accepted as representative of Narayana.
There is a very nice incidence in this connection. Sanatana Gosvami, he was the prime minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then governor of Bengal, Pathan government. So when Sanatana Gosvami met Lord Caitanya, he decided to resign the government responsible post and take to this preaching of Krsna consciousness. The Nawab, his most confidential representative was Hussain Shah. He was known as Sakara Mallika. Formerly the brahmana community was very strict. Because Sanatana Gosvami, although he was born in a Sarasvata brahmana family, he accepted the service of a Muhammadan king, he was rejected from the brahmana society, so practically he became Muhammadan. His name was Sakara Mallika, name was also changed. But this Sakara Mallika later on decided that he would propagate the Krsna consciousness movement started by Lord Caitanya. So when he wanted to resign, the Nawab was very much sorry, because he was right-hand man. He frankly said that "I am engaged with sporting and so many other proclivities, and you are my only representative to rule over the country. If you resign, then I shall be in great danger. I cannot accept your resignation." Then he said, "Your majesty, I am sorry. I cannot proceed any more. I shall retire from the service." Then Nawab said that "Then I shall punish you. I shall immediately arrest you. I cannot let you go." The answer of Sanatana Gosvami was that "You are king, representative of Narayana, so whatever punishment you give, I shall accept." So that was the Hindu culture, that in spite of being punished by the king, he accepts the king as the representative of Narayana. And actually, the Krsna, the Supreme Lord, He is the proprietor of everything. Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor of... Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Therefore, to govern a planet there is representative of Krsna. In the heavenly planets there is Indra. In the sun planet there is Vivasvan. In the Brahmaloka there is Lord Brahma. Similarly, there are different planets and different representative of Krsna.
So the Vedic civilization accepts the king or the ruler as representative of God, and he is given the... Not only in India. In other countries also, so far we know, in England also the royal family, the king and the queen is given respect as good as to the God. In every country, in Japan also. That was the system all over the world, the relationship between the citizen and the king. Gradually, with the progress of the Kali-yuga, Maharaja Pariksit was the last ksatriya king to give protection all over the world. And when he was cursed by a brahmana boy, his father regretted that "My dear boy, you have brought a scar amongst the brahmana society by cursing a king like Maharaja Pariksit." So Maharaja Pariksit was protected by Krsna. He could counteract it, but still, he tolerated that punishment or the curse given by a brahmana boy. He immediately resigned from his royal throne, handing over the charge to his son. And he retired on the bank of the Ganges although he had only seven days' time to live. And during those seven days the whole Bhagavata was recited. So, I mean to say, the royal family has got very intimate relationship with Krsna consciousness. And as soon as that was broken, because sometimes it breaks, the religious process declined and the royal power also declined. That is the whole history of the world.
Now, at the present moment we have started this Krsna consciousness movement from the Western world so that people may become again happy and come to their original consciousness. And that is being accepted by the Western world. I have got within four years forty-two branches all over the world. In America especially, practically in every principal city I have got a branch. Especially in Los Angeles, and New York we have got the biggest temple. And in England also, London, we have got our temple, 7 Bury Place. When your Highnesses may visit London or New York or Los Angeles—most probably you visit London occasionally—I invite you to our temple at 7 Bury Place near the British Museum. It is very prominent place. And this girl in front of you, Srimati Yamuna devi, she and her husband Gurudasa is in charge of the temple. But because I have come to India, they are assisting me. She has seen the Prime Minister also, Indira Gandhi. She is very much impressed with the sankirtana movement. So this Krsna consciousness and patronization by the royal family is very old relationship. So I came especially in Indore to see your holinesses..., er, highnesses, that if you give us some shelter we can immediately open a branch of Krsna consciousness movement. I have brought with me forty American, European, Canadian students, and they will be exemplary teachers. You can see from their faces how they are advanced in spiritual consciousness, how they have accepted these principles of Vaisnavism. They are no longer meat-eaters. They don't touch meat, egg, or fish, nothing of the sort. They have given up drinking habit or any kind of intoxications. They do not accept even tea, coffee and cigarette, and they do not take part in gambling, neither they have any illicit sex life. And they are observing ekadasi days and other Vaisnava festivals like Janmastami, Sri Rama-navami, and every temple, they are following the same principles. And gradually we are increasing the number. The Western boys and girls, my students, are all between twenty and thirty years old. You will find none of them more than twenty-five, twenty-six years old. So they are... In Japan also... Here is a Japanese boy also. So the world is taking very serious situation. All over the world they are appreciating. Your Highnesses will be pleased to see how many books we have published. Perhaps you have seen one of them, Krsna. That is published in two parts. We have got our magazine, Back to Godhead, in five languages: English, French, German, and Japanese, Hindi, and Bengali. Of course Bengali is going to be out. Hindi is already out. So we are doing these activities, and we have a mind that we may open a center in a nice city like Indore under your patronization. Although I know that at the present moment the time is different, still, if you like, you can help us in so many ways. In our Indian parable it is said that "A dead elephant is also one lakh of rupees." Elephant, living or dead, still, it is valuable. Mara hati laksa (?).
So this movement, from very old days, beginning from that sun-god, and again five thousand years ago between Lord Krsna and the Pandavas, the pious kings. So this movement has got very intimate relationship with the ksatriya kings. So I would request Your Highness... Both, you are sitting. If you kindly give us a little place here in Indore, we can immediately start a nice center. And this Krsna consciousness movement is essential. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that,
yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana
sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah
harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna
mano-rathena asato dhavato bahih
That "If anyone has got devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he develops all the good qualities." Just like Sanatana Gosvami. Because he was a devotee, he did not distinguish the king, whether he was Muhammadan or Hindu. He immediately accepted that "You are representative of Krsna." That is the version. Arjuna, because he was a devotee, although he was in the battlefield, he was insulted, his wife was insulted, his kingdom was usurped, still, he said, "Better not to fight and kill my kinsmen." That goodness was not found on the other side, Duryodhana. Because Arjuna was a devotee, he was compassionate with his brothers, not to kill them. But Krsna wanted that this fighting must go on because He wanted to install Maharaja Yudhisthira, the pious king, on the throne. So therefore Krsna consciousness movement and the support of the royal family is very old relationship. And at the present moment people need this Krsna consciousness very badly. Without Krsna consciousness the whole world is going to hell. And you can practically see how they are changing, how this movement is changing character and mentality of the population. So I have come here. I wish that both of you will be kindly enough to patronize this movement to your best capacity.
Vande rupa-sanatanau-raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau. This movement is pleasing both to the dhira and adhira. There are two classes of men. Dhira means those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness, and adhira means those who are advancing in the process of sense gratification. So these two classes of men... Dhiradhira-jana-priyau. Krsna consciousness movement is so nice that we can please both classes of men, the dhiras and the adhiras. Anyone we invite. I have spread this movement not restricting them, that "You can enter in my class after being qualified." No. Whatever you are, come. Dhiradhira. You come, chant, have musical instruments, plays, enjoy, dance, take prasadam and go home. And if you like, you read literatures, if you are intelligent. So everything was given to them. And they are American boys and girls. They are intelligent, qualified. So they are coming.
Yamuna: But I think it is very dangerous.
Prabhupada: Not... I don't... We got a invitation from Czechoslovakia. That is also Communist country, but there the people invited us to open a center.
Yamuna: The Hare Krsna mantra was number one in Czechoslovakia. We have one record. I just chant Hare Krsna over and over, the maha-mantra, and in that country it was the most popular of all records.
Prabhupada: In Germany also. We sold fifty thousand records in Germany. And there is another record, govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. That is also selling very nicely. And recently another record you produced? What is that?
Yamuna: Yes, that will be a long-playing record, Srila Prabhupada. It's name is Bhaja Hure Mana, Mana Hu Re.
Prabhupada: So that is not yet out?
Yamuna: Well, from what I understood, Mr. Harrison wants to get it out before Christmas, but I have not heard from Syamasundara what has developed.
Prabhupada: There is one boy, George Harrison. Perhaps you know his name. He is one of the Beatles.
Indian man (2): Harrison, yes.
Prabhupada: Harrison, yes. He paid me nineteen thousand dollars for my publication work, and he is a very good boy. And he is helping in pushing on our record. He is very popular.
Indian man (2): Very popular.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. And he has got to sing with him. Yes. [break] ...in London I was guest in one of the Beatles' palace. They have got each one a big, big palace. So we shall all take leave, Maharaja. Thank you. [break]
Prabhupada: She likes our movement.
Yamuna: Well, she had to.
Prabhupada: (laughs) And she has seen that house also.
Yamuna: She knows that we're something
Hamsaduta: Eight to nine we have engagement.
Hamsaduta: Tonight we have another engagement, eight to nine.
Prabhupada: That's nice. So give me cold water. She is countrywoman. She is also American.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom she is coming? Where father's, father's house, this?
Prabhupada: That's all right. So Muktananda, how are you feeling? You are feeling all right?
Prabhupada: So give him kunti. Purchase kunti from the market. (japa) If that kind of mrdanga can be purchased, you find out. That's very nice.
Revatinandana: They have to be brought from Calcutta.
Prabhupada: No, the mrdanga which you played.
Revatinandana: Yes, I know.
Prabhupada: They're from Calcutta?
Revatinandana: That's what it says.
Hamsaduta: It's a very nice drum.
Prabhupada: Calcutta, there are many good manufacturers of musical instruments. Bengal is famous for music and hair.
Girl: And hair.
Prabhupada: There is oil in (?). Bengali women, they have got hair like this. My sister had so bunch. (laughter) Black hair, and very long. So Bengal is famous for hair and music.
Devotee: Swamiji... (?)
Prabhupada: Ah, no. This is for distribution of prasada here. [break] ...hungry, hungry man. And Krsna consciousness man, never he is hungry. If you are hungry, come, enjoy. We are never hungry. We are overfed.
Yamuna: Yes. It's a fact.
Prabhupada: We have to fast practically by feeding others. (laughter) You are after food; we are rejecting food. Is it not?
Hamsaduta: Yes. We're having trouble avoiding it.
Revatinandana: We're trying to reject it.
Hamsaduta: I think all of us had thought when you called us to India, "Now we will have to starve." So we came, and there is so much to eat.
Revatinandana: When we left New York City, the last Sunday, Rsi-kumara cooked a tremendous feast. So we ate until we couldn't move, 'cause we thought it was our last feast. We thought there'd never be any more prasadam. (laughter) Now we have to...
Prabhupada: There was a famine in India in 1942, big famine. I particularly inquired among the disciples of my Guru Maharaja, and even the remote village, they said that "We have no difficulty." No. And another, there was a havoc, earthquake, in Bihar sometime in 1933 or that... And one of our Godbrother, Mr. Munshi Chatterjee, when he heard that quarter is completely demolished, so he was in the office. He was thinking, "What shall I do by going home? There is no more home. Everything is..." Then he said, "Let me go and see." And when he came there, only his house was left. Only his house. All house dismantled. The only. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. That we have seen in many instances. Krsna-bhakta is never vanquished.
Devotee: Yes. We were thinking that he was getting special protection from the Lord.
Prabhupada: That is a fact. So be sincere, do your duty. You will never be in trouble. Never.
Himavati: All the members of this family are attracted to you, Prabhupada. They are becoming more and more attracted every day.
Prabhupada: But some of them are very envious that I went there with forty rupees, and I got so many boys and girls, children, they become envious. Profitable. They began to say, "Oh, it is profitable business." Is it not? So I said, "All right, I leave your country." If the Krsna is there, I can make profit anywhere. All right. So you have to wait?
Hamsaduta: They should come any minute.
Prabhupada: So all our men are ready?
Hamsaduta: We're all ready.
Prabhupada: Four, six, eight, nine. Gopala is sick? Just see how he is.
Devotee: He has a strong fever today.
Prabhupada: Oh, then taking rest completely. Come on. Where the box are?
Hamsaduta: I haven't prepared it.
Prabhupada: You should prepare.
Hamsaduta: They have to be at least three or four...
Himavati: Reinforce the handle so it's stronger.
Prabhupada: You do one thing. Have you got rope?
Himavati: Rope? Yes.
Prabhupada: Bring it. And do...
Hamsaduta: Bring it?
Prabhupada: Yes, rope.
Hamsaduta: You mean put a... Yes, I'll be able to that.
Prabhupada: This palace is nice.
Himavati: Yes. Run down, though. I noticed that the upholstery was torn.
Prabhupada: It is very old.
Hamsaduta: That knife, Prabhupada? You have that knife?
Prabhupada: Yes. You can give to anyone in this way. Aiye... (Hindi) (end)
Previous: Lecture Excerpt -- Bombay, November 10, 1970 Next: Lecture at Krsna Niketan -- Gorakhpur, February 16, 1971