680614BG.MON
Bhagavad-gita 4.8

Montreal, June 14, 1968
Prabhupada: Why he is standing there? Come. Come here.
Om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya, caksur-unmilitam yena... Sit down. Tasmai sri-gurave namah.
[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]
[When will Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]
This verse we have been discussing, that the Lord descends out of His own spiritual energy. He descends, appears. Yuge yuge sambhavami, in every millennium. And dharma-samsthapanarthaya. Two things are visible in his characteristics. One thing is paritranaya sadhunam. Those who are pious, following strictly the rules and regulations of particular type of scripture, to protect such persons, and to vanquish duskrtam, miscreants... Miscreants. Who are miscreants? Miscreants, means just like outlaw. A person may be very nice, well-educated, or wealth. So many qualifications he might have. But if he is an outlaw, then all his qualification becomes damned. Similarly, duskrtam, miscreant, outlaw, those who are not obedient to the laws of nature or laws of God...
There is no difference between laws of nature and laws of God. Laws of nature means laws of God. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Therefore Bhagavata says that religious principle cannot be manufactured by any human being. It is the law of God. Therefore one has to obey. One cannot disobey. Law of nature you cannot disobey. It will be enforced upon you. Just like law of nature, the winter season. You cannot change it. It will be enforced upon you. Law of nature, summer season, you cannot change it anything. Laws of nature or laws of God, the sun is rising from the eastern side and setting on the western side. You cannot change it, anything.
That you have to understand, how laws of nature is going on. That is Krsna consciousness, to understand laws of nature. And as soon as speak of laws of nature, we must accept that there is a lawmaker. Laws of nature cannot develop automatically. There must be some authority on the background. Bhagavad-gita therefore says in the Tenth Chapter that mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My direction, superintendence, the material laws are working."
The scientists, they are studying material laws, but they have no information of the lawmaker. They are surprised with the wonderful laws. Now, you can study your own body, how laws of nature is working under the direction of a living entity. You just try to understand your own body. You are eating, it is going to the stomach, and it is transforming into different secretions. Then it is pumped up to the heart. And in the heart it becomes reddish blood, and the blood is transfused or transported to different parts of the body through the veins. There is a big mechanical arrangement undoubtedly. Every scientist or every sane man will admit. But it is just like a machine. It is just like a machine. Any machine you take, motor car, typewriting, whatever you have got experience... There are many in your country; it is machine country.
So the constructor, construction of the machine may be very complicated, wonderful, very nice, everything is all right, but a living entity required to pull on the button. Without pulling on the button, however nice arrangement may be in the machine, it cannot work. That is our experience. We cannot deny it. The wonderful machine, working... Now, business machine, there are so many wonderful machine. They are working also. Sometimes calculating brain is required; electrical brain is there. Everything is all right. But unless a man puts on the button, plies the button, it cannot work. That thing is important.
Similarly, the statement of Bhagavad-gita, that mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10], this material world, this cosmic manifestation, is working very wonderfully, and controlling the moving and the not moving... We have got experience. Just like we are moving, man, animals. But there are certain other things, just like trees, mountains. They do not move. So moving or unmoving. But everyone is being controlled by the laws of nature. Caracaram. Cara means moving; acaram means not moving. Hetunanena kaunteya: "Because I am on the background," kaunteya, "my dear Arjuna, for this reason..." Hetunanena kaunteya.
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
Jagat, the progressive world, is parivartate, changing. In so many ways they are changing. This is the fact.
But how you can deny the living force behind this gigantic, mechanical arrangement? Call it material world, material machine, or whatever you may call. How you can deny? At least from your practical experience you cannot deny. You may put some jugglery of words, but the actual fact is this.
So duskrtina means a person who does not believe this. They are called miscreants. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. So God, in His incarnation, appears with two missionary purposes. One purpose is paritranaya sadhunam, just to protect the pious who are obedient to the laws of God or the laws of nature. And to vanquish persons who are disobedient. They are called duskrtina. This duskrtina, or miscreant, is described in another place also in the Bhagavad-gita. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. The purpose is, Krsna says, that those who are miscreants, always disobeying the laws of nature or always denying the prime factor behind the wonderful activities of nature, such miscreants, na mam duskrtino mudhah. Mudhah means they are rascals. They cannot...
They will put so many theories that there is no God, and none of the theories are practical, neither they can prove it by experimental knowledge. Still, they will insist on. That is their business. And when we say... When somebody says, "You prove it," the answer is, "Well, we are advancing. Some day will come; we shall prove it." That's all. "Some day will come." They do not understand that "Trust no future however pleasant."
Why you are expecting that some day will come when science will be perfect? Throughout the whole history of the human society, never it has been possible that one can give life. There is no such instance in the history. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. The four principles of material inebrieties, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, nobody has been able to check in the past history of human society, and how you can believe that in future these problems, namely janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi, birth, death, old age, and disease, will be solved by the advancement of science? So at least we cannot believe. And no sane man will believe it.
Therefore those who are trying to defy the presence of God, saying, "God is dead. There is no God," and trying to prove by so-called scientific method there is no God, the matter is working out of his own way, and things are taking placethere are so many theoriesthey are called classified as miscreant. Na mam duskrtino mudhah. Miscreants, and mudhah means rascals. Mudha... Real meaning of mudha is ass. Ass has no knowledge. He is working day and night, oh, very... But he does not know what for he is working. He has no ambition, he has no information where is the destination of perfection. Therefore they are called mudhah. Mudhah means rascals. So na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Naradhama means lowest of the mankind. Na prapadyante: "They do not surrender unto Me, God." Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah.
Now the question may be that "Why they do not surrender? Why they do not believe in God? Why they do not take to God consciousness or Krsna consciousness? They are very educated, advanced. They have got university degrees. But why they do not do it? They are supposed to be very culturally advanced." So the answer is given there in the Bhagavad-gita, mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah. Because their intention is to deny God, therefore although they are very much advanced in so-called education, the effect of knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy of maya. The maya has taken away the effect of knowledge.
Just like we met some Indian gentleman while coming. I asked him, "Why don't you come to temple?" "Swamiji, I am searching after some employment. I have lost my employment." Just see. he has come from India, so, about fifteen thousand miles away, and the problem is still unemployment. Why he has come here, so far distant? That means he's educated. Otherwise, this country would not allow him immigration. But the problem is there, unemployment.
So there is very nice program, er, proverb in Bengali. Yadi yao bhange kaphala yabe sange.[?] That means "Wherever you go, your, this fortune..." Generally, when we speak of fortune we touch our head. Sometimes we say, "Oh, it is my misfortune." That means fortune may be written here. It is said. So "Wherever you go, your, this fortune will go with you." So how you can avoid your..." If you have got nonsense fortune, then it will go with you. Either you go to Canada, or you go to hell, or you go to heaven, the fortune will go with you.
The Bhagavata says, therefore, tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. You cannot change your fortune. That means, fortune means, you are, with this body, you have got certain amount of enjoyment and certain amount of distress. That is made already according to your past activities. That you can change. Just like due to some mistake, I may have some disease, infection, but there is medicine also to counteract that infection. That is possible. It is not that because I am misfortunate, it cannot be changed. It can be changed.
Similarly, what should be my attempt? The attempt should be, according to Bhagavata, to understand the laws of nature or the laws of God and how it is working under His direction. That should be the attempt. You are making research. That's very nice. But your research is not complete because you take something halfway: "This is the beginning of life" or "This is the beginning of the creation." No. You have to go still further, still go further. And science means you have to prove by experiment that "This law is working like this, and therefore things are happening like this." If you simply presuppose that "Here is the beginning," that is not perfect.
So duskrtina means that, those who do not believe in the authorities. So many things are there which is beyond our conception, beyond our understanding. Our senses, our I mean to say, instrument of acquiring knowledge, are so imperfect, that it is not possible simply by handling our, the present senses to understand the right knowledge. It is not possible.
So Srimad-Bhagavata says, tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. Factually, an intelligent person is he who is trying to achieve that highest perfectional stage of life which cannot be achieved simply by touring different planets. Upary adhah. Now we are trying to go to the moon planet and other planets. It is not new thing. It is very old attempt. Since there are human beings we have got so many instances. But in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you can go to the highest planet, which is called Brahmaloka, still, the problems of life cannot be solved. The four problems of lifebirth, death, old age and diseasecannot be solved. Therefore our attempt should be that we do not care for these problems. We have taken it, accepted that "All right, we shall take birth. We shall die. We shall become old. We shall become diseased. Doesn't matter. Still we are progressing." Just see. What is the progress? If you cannot solve these problems, then what kind of progress you are making? But we are satisfied, "Yes, we are making progress." So this is called mayayapahrta-jnanah [Bg. 7.15]. They are not making any progress, even an inch, and still, they are proud of their progressive knowledge.
This is called maya. Maya means what is not. Maya. Ma means not. Not. Ya means this. This is maya. He is thinking... The modern human society, they are thinking that advancing. But maya. It is not. You are not advancing. What advancement you have made? Your problem is, the primary problem is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Oh, that is not solved. Our problem is birth, death, old age and disease. And that is not solved. Then what nuisance you are doing in the name of progress? There is no progress. The real progress is to understand the laws of nature, how it is being conducted under the direction of the Supreme Lord. That is real progress.
So Bhagavata indicates tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovidah. Kovida means one who is actually intelligent, not the mudhah, rascals, actually one who is intelligent. He should try to solve the problems which is not possible to be done even if you travel over all the spaces up to the highest planet. Upary adhah. Upary adhah means upside all planets and downside all planets. There are millions of planets. If you travel... But these problems... Just like your fortune will go with you in your head. You may go to moon planet, but this head will go with you. Yadi yao bhange kaphala yabe sange.[?] You cannot change. If you have to attempt anything for real progress, then this is real progress. What is that? To know the Supreme Absolute Truth, which is manipulating all activities. That is real progress.
Bhagavata again says, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum: [SB 7.5.31] "These rascals, they do not know where is the ultimate destination of his self-interest." Everyone is very much busy or very serious about his self-interest, everyone. Just like the gentleman. He could not come to the temple because he is interested with his self-interest, where to get the employment. But what is that real self-interest, they do not know. This is temporary self-interest. But the real self-interest is Visnu, the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth. Na te viduh. But modern education and any education, modern or past, in the material world, those who are conditioned by the material laws, they do not know so, what is his ultimate destination of self-interest. Na te viduh. They do not know.
Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Visnu means the Supreme Lord, all-pervading. Why? Durasaya. Durasaya means ill-conceived plan. They are thinking that they will be happy by planning in this material world. This is called durasa. It will never be fulfilled. It will never be fulfilled. Durasa. Dur means it is impossible. But they will not accept this. They will not accept. They are being knocked so many timesfailure, failure, failure, failure. Still, they will not accept. Dur. Bahir-artha-maninah: "They are captivated by the glamour of this external energy." Bahir-artha-maninah.
Adanta-gobhih: "And the main disease is uncontrolled senses." Adanta. Adanta means uncontrolled, unbridled senses. Because the senses, being unbridled, they will not allow you to understand in cool head what is the problem. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram. Just like if you are sitting on a car where the horses are unbridled and it is running on in great speed without your control, you do not know where, when you will be in danger. You will be in danger. You are already in danger because the horses are unbridled. It is pulling you anywhere it likes. Similarly, our horsesthe senses are called horsesit is being controlled. Visatam tamisram. It is going to the darkest region of hellish condition.
Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. And such persons are repeatedly chewing the chewed. One plan is made; that is frustrated. Another plan again made, again frustrated. Again plan made, again frustrated. But still, they will go on plan-making, but they will never accept the actual truth. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says, mayayapahrta-jnanah: [Bg. 7.15] "Their knowledge has been taken away by the energy of maya." Maya apahrta-jnanah. Why maya is taking away? Asuram bhavam asritah. Because they have taken this principle, to deny God. That's it. Only for this reason, for this fault only, the maya is acting so severely. Maya will never allow such person to understand the real truth. They will go on making plan-making, it will be frustrated, again plan-making, again frustrated, again frustrated.
So this process is going on because they do not know that their self-interest is that Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Krsna says that He comes, He descends, with two purposes: paritranaya sadhunam [Bg. 4.8], to give relief to the pious, to the righteous, and to vanquish the miscreants, and to establish the real religious principle. And what is that real religious principle? That is stated in the last instruction. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real religion, to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That's all. This is done even by great philosophers. He has to do that.
Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. But he's now mentally speculating to find out the Absolute Truth, but when his knowledge will be mature, bahunam janmanam, after many, many births of speculation, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate, when he is actually in knowledge, he surrenders unto the Supreme Lord, vasudevah sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Oh, Lord Krsna, Vasudeva, Vasudeva is everything." Sa mahatma sudurlabhah: "Such kind of great soul is very rare."
But fortunately we have got these instructions of Bhagavad-gita, and the teacher is Lord Caitanya. If we follow these principles and try to understand it with all our knowledge, all our logic and argument, then our life is successful. Here is an opportunity the movement of Krsna consciousness. And it is very easy. You simply sit down. If you don't like to come to this temple, it doesn't matter. At, in your home only, you sit down with your friends, with your boyfriend or girlfriend or family members, children. Sit down and chant Hare Krsna. If you have got a nice musical instrument it is all right. Otherwise, God has given you these hands. You can clap, Hare Krsna. Very easy. Just try it and you will understand everything gradually.
Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By simply chanting Hare Krsna, gradually all coverings... [break]
...God, the living entity, the material nature, the time, and the activities. If you can thoroughly study these five principles, then you become perfectly advanced in knowledge and your life is successful. And all this will be possible simply by this chanting Hare Krsna. And when your mind will be clean, you will be able to understand the instruction of Bhagavad-gita automatically. These things are there. Thank you very much. Any question?
Guest (1): Swami, for my benefit, and perhaps everyone else's, can you tell us briefly what you mean by the Krsna consciousness movement?
Prabhupada: I have several times explained this Krsna consciousness. Again I shall explain. It is very nice to explain. You have got your consciousness. Is it right? Every one of us, we have got consciousness. Is that right? Now, this consciousness is eternal. This consciousness is not a result of the combination of matter. You cannot create consciousness by mixing so many chemicals or material things in the laboratory. That is not possible. This consciousness eternal. How do we know it? Because we understand it from Bhagavad-gita. It is stated that avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam: "That thing which is spread all over your body..." And what is that thing? This consciousness. You pinch any part of your body; you feel pain because the consciousness is there. "So that thing, consciousness," Krsna says, the teacher of Bhagavad-gita, "that is eternal." Eternal. Now, how it is eternal? When you were a child the consciousness was there. Then you grew up to your boyhoodthe consciousness was there. Then you are now youngthe consciousness is there. And when you become old man like me, the consciousness will be there.
Therefore, in spite of my changing different kinds of body, the consciousness is there. And when I shall change this body for another new body, this consciousness will go with me. And according to that consciousness, I'll get a particular type of body. So at the present moment, because we are changing different kinds of bodies, that means my consciousness is not pure. And we have to make our consciousness pure, which is technically called Krsna consciousness. And as soon as the consciousness is pure, you get your eternal existential life. That is the sum and substance of becoming Krsna conscious. And this movement is for that purpose, Krsna consciousness. You have any other inquiry about? [break]
Guest (1): Yes, Swami. You mentioned new bodies. Does this embrace reincarnation? That is, when we leave the physical body we have now on death, do you mean that consciousness goes on.
Prabhupada: Yes. This incarnation is going on every minute because you are changing your body. Imperceptibly you are changing your body. That is a medical, scientific point, that we are changing our body every second, every minute. This change, you call change, or you can transfer your identity from one body to another. It means the same thing. You see?
So similarly, the ultimate change of this body is called death. When this body is no more workable, then we transmigrate to another body. That body is offered to us according to our consciousness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death, the situation of your consciousness makes you ready for accepting a similar body. And if you quit this body in Krsna consciousness, then you get a body by which you can associate with Krsna. That is to be understood, how it is possible. Therefore the training should be Krsna conscious. [break]
...in particular type of consciousness. That we cannot deny. Now if we change our consciousness to Krsna type of consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, that is perfection of our life. The process is: by chanting Hare Krsna we keep always alive to Krsna consciousness. [break]
Guest (1): How long does it take for anyone to achieve perfection? How many stages one must go through, or how many years, how many centuries?
Prabhupada: No. There is no such stereotype rules that you have to do it for so many years, so many... It depends on your personal energy of progress. It is very simple to understand. Suppose a man is diseased. No doctor can guarantee that "This will be cured in so many days." You see? It depends on the situation of the patient's condition and accepting the treatment. Similarly, it can be cured in one day, or it may not be cured in one thousand days. That will depend on the patient. [break]
...have got instances that one got perfection in Krsna consciousness within a few seconds also. That is also possible. Because it is spiritual, it does not depend on any material rules and regulations. It depends on my seriousness. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita you have got instruction by Lord Krsna,
"My dear Arjuna, you just surrender unto Me, and I take charge of you and make you free from all reaction of your past activities." So if we seriously surrender to God, or Krsna, then immediately our desire is fulfilled, immediately.
But we are not prepared. That is the difficulty. Maya will instruct me, "Why? Why you shall surrender?" That's it. So it depends on me how long it will take to cure this disease. Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje: [SB 1.2.6] "That type of religion is perfect by which one can surrender or can incline, can be inclined, or develop love of God." That's all.
It does not mention which religion you shall accept. You accept any religion. But test is, perfection of that religious procedure, whether you have developed ecstatic love for God. If you have achieved that, then that religious principle is first-class. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. Para means transcendental, first-class. Yato bhaktih "By executing which, you can have, develop, Krsna consciousness or God consciousness." And that process is called ahaituki, without any reason, apratihata, and it cannot be checked by any material condition. If somebody thinks that "Well, I have been sinful for so many years, and even if I surrender to the God, it will take so many years," no, it is not like that. The surrendering process, if it is perfect, the result is immediately perfect. Ahaituky apratihata yayatma suprasidati.
And by such Krsna consciousness, development of Krsna consciousness, one's mind becomes fully satisfied. Yayatma suprasidati. Prasidati means satisfaction, fully satisfied. Every one of us are trying to satisfy, to become satisfied. That is possible by attaining full Krsna consciousness. [break]
Devotee (2): What happens to the miscreants when they are vanquished?
Prabhupada: Don't you see how many miscreants are suffering? Even you go to the law court, you see how they are suffering. Somebody is putting into jail for so many years, somebody is being ordered to be hanged, somebody is being ordered to be whipped, and so many things are happening. And then you see so many animal life. There are eight million four-hundred-thousands of different species of life. They are suffering.
The tree... If you get the body of a tree, you stand up for ten thousands of years in one place. We have got experience when teacher punishes us, "Stand up on the bench," for a few minutes, we become disturbed: "Sir, please excuse me. I shall not do this." Now, if you have to stand up for ten thousands of years in one place, just see. These are the punishment to the miscreants. So this human body is the only opportunity to understand all these things and make your life successful so that you may not come again for standing up for seven thousand years or ten thousand years. Yes. But the miscreants will not believe this. They think, "A tree, it is another thing. I am perfect." He does not know that every chance there is that you also become a tree.
These are practical examples. You can study. By nature's study you can understand how the miscreants are punished. But unfortunately we have become so dull that even by seeing or by hearing we do not believe them. That's it.
Just like a thief. He sees personally that a man who has committed theft is taken away by the police to the custody, to the prison. He is seeing that, and he has heard the law that "Any man who steals, he will be punished." He has heard it, and he has seen it. Still, he commits theft. Why? He is seeing, and he is hearing. In both ways he is understanding, but still, he is committing theft. That means his heart is not pure.
So the first thing is to make one's heart purified. And this is the process, ceto-darpana-marjanam, param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], by simply chanting, without paying any price, without any loss on your part. Please try to chant this Hare Krsna and see the result. It is so nice movement. [break]
...take it very seriously that "Here is an animal. Here is a tree. They have also got life. They are also living entities as we are. Simply it is different body. That's all." He has got that sort of body; I have got this sort of body. But the demands of the body are there. Even in cats and dog the eating, sleeping, mating and defending... There is four symptoms of life. The cat also, or dog also, eat; we also eat. They also sleep; we also sleep. They have their sex desires; we have got our sex desire. We want to defend from enemies; they also want to defend from enemies. Similarly, in every species of life we will find these four principles existing.
How you can say that you are better than him? You are better than him when you understand how the laws of material nature is working so that one has become tree to stand up for ten thousands of years, and I have got all freedom to move and to make education, to go to the school, colleges, take education, advancement of knowledge. That is the difference between tree and me. So far necessities of the body, material body, is concerned, the demand is there; demand is here. You can accept from that type of body, by this body, simply by understanding, by advancing in knowledge. And the perfection of knowledge is to know who is God. Or where is God. That is perfection. So long one does not understand what is God or the Absolute Truth by whom everything is being emanated, the knowledge is imperfect. Knowledge is not finished. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says, bahunam janmanam ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births of cultivating knowledge, one comes to the understanding of accepting God is the prime source, fountainhead of everything." That is perfection of knowledge.
At the present moment people are denying the existence of God, or they are thinking that God is dead. That means imperfection of knowledge. They have to still make progress to the perfectional point. And that test is to understand, "Here is God, and He is the fountainhead of everything." That perfection of knowledge you will have simply by reading... Any scripture you can read. The same conception is there. But in the Bhagavad-gita it is more clearly explained so that you can understand with all reason, arguments, and scrutiny too. It is not dogmatic. That is the beauty of Bhagavad-gita.
Just like in some dictionary the word is explained in one word. In some dictionary it is explained that "The history of this world is like this. This word can be explained like this, like that, like that," some pages like that. Similarly, so far dictionary, the small pocket dictionary is also dictionary, and that Webster's International big dictionary, that is also dictionary. The difference is that international dictionary, you get details of one word. Similarly, any scripture is perfectly giving direction towards understanding what is God. But actually how God is great, how He is working, how His laws are working, all these things you can find in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. (end)

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